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  1. #1
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    MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    I know this is a dumb question but can someone humour me please? <img src=/S/doh.gif border=0 alt=doh width=15 height=15>

    Where can i make sure that i have the right service pack for MSDE ?

    We are about to look at rolling out Access XP to all Access users in the company and I want to know where to find a list of what service packs need applying. Am i right in thinking that the MSDE sp is not included in any Office sp's ??

    TIA

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    You are right. To patch MSDE, you use the SQL Server 2000 service packs.
    Charlotte

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    I believe you are correct - the SQL Server 2000 Desktop Engine actually has a separate setup program to begin with, and as best I can tell, no changes to it are included in the Office Service Packs. There are however at least two SPs that should be applied - see <!mskb=308856>Microsoft Knowledge Base Article 308856<!/mskb> for example.

    I'm not sure you will need to install it on all user workstations however - I presume you are running shared databases with the Desktop Engine installed on a "server like" workstation.
    Wendell

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    Our set-up is varied to say the leastb ut we are moving towards SQL solutions for as many applications as appropriate.

    Currently we have :-

    1- many users who have created their own databases and so have a single mdb file that is both data store and front end.

    2- some users who have a shared mdb where data sits on a server and each of them has an Access front end on their local PC.

    3- some users who have data stored in SQL databases and they have Access front ends on their local PC

    do i understand you correctly in so far as we will have to sp all usres in 1 above, the server where the data is in 2 and 3?

    having typed this i can see a problem, the server in situ 2 above has no data engine whatsoever, it is just a file server, surely the client will need to be sp'd ??

    in situ 3, all SQL servers get packed once we have tested the effects of the sp. Do we need to be as circumspect about MSDE sp's or are they considered safe to apply at any time?

    Our aim is to move as many people as possible towards situation 3 as possible, or at least only release Access in run time versions where this is not possible. We are suffering from a long running situation where Access has been used by Tom, Dick, Harry and all of their relatives to store data. Many of these 'developments' have occurred when Excel would have been better or they should have had a proper system developed.

    what is the equivalent of the Office Developers Toolkit / ODE in XP ?

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    I presumed you were running some ADP front-ends to Desktop Engine back-ends, but there is very little difference between that and full SQL Server 2000. I would definitely install the SQL Server Service Packs - there are several security issues fixed with the more recent ones - there was a worm making the rounds several months that was SQL Server based.

    As to the Office SPs, you will want those on all the workstations that are running Access applications. I would use some caution in going to run-time versions, as the patching of runtime code has been sporadic at best, and there tend to be issues with references if you are doing anything complex with code, automation, etc. Rather, I would suggest you use MDEs if you don't want people messing with the design. To create runtimes, you would need the Developer Edition of Office XP.

    If you have lots of users, you might want to look at some sort of deployment manager to update software on the workstation as you make design changes.
    Wendell

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    You are a brave man if you are taking access from the desktops of your users.

    Have you tried issuing development guidelines for the users with the position that failing to meet guidelines will make their systems unsupportable by your IS / IT department? I worked for a firm that had 13,000 rubbish databases that were user generated and found that user education helped a little. We identified that only a small number of users were responsible for producing most of the systems that the users wished to retain and persuaded these power users that it would be best for all if they worked with in our guidelines.

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    In your first paragraph you mention installing the SQL sp's, do you think that would need to happen on all of the 'full' access insatllations?

    what is the difference between Access Run Time and an MDE solution? When i create a Run Time solution in Office 97 it creates an EXE file that the user installs, this leaves an MDE file that they can run without having to have Access included in the Office installation (Office std v Office Pro - thus saving us licensing costs). <img src=/S/confused.gif border=0 alt=confused width=15 height=20>

    re deployment, we are hoping to roll out Office XP via Active Directory, will SQL SP's go this way or do they need to be done individually? On the plus side, we probably only have 40 <img src=/S/ouch.gif border=0 alt=ouch width=15 height=15> full Access installations currently and we hope to cut that down during the rollout as we discover the databases that could be spreadsheets.

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    a good point, we too seem to be encountering a small core of users that are responsible for most of the md* files on our network.

    If we start to issue guidlines on db contruction i think we would unfortunately meet a huge training need. As most staff have no need to use Access, they have had no training. I guess this is why the databases that are created may just as well be in Excel.

    It seems to be a historic thing in so far as when the company was just getting into Office 97 all installations were Office Pro. When someone found a need to store some data, for whatever purpose, they thought of a database and so went straight into Access for the solution. A lack of training and understanding of what Office is and how each application works is to blame for this as at the time there was very little training going on.

    All Office installations nowadays are Office Std by default and people have to demonstrate a need in order to have Office Pro ( indeed with AD deployment this will become easier to manage as we have offices that are as much as 130 miles apart the desktop installations can suffer from too little control currently). With th upgrade to Office XP we see it is another lever to get people into using Excel if they need to manipulate data rather than creating another db. Interestingly, there are very few of these rogue DB's that we have found so far that are actually shared by more than one user.

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    <hr>In your first paragraph you mention installing the SQL sp's, do you think that would need to happen on all of the 'full' access insatllations?<hr>
    No - if these are user installs, I would guess few if any actually have the MSDE installed - it only came with 2000, and requires a separate install process. Only if people were creating an ADP would you even need it - so do a search for any files with an ADP extension.
    <hr>what is the difference between Access Run Time and an MDE solution?<hr>
    An MDE is simply a compiled version of the database that has all the VBA code removed, and won't let you modify forms, reports and code, but still requires a full Access install to run. A RunTime solution on the other hand does not require an Access installation, but does not allow any design changes - even for queries and tables, and usually requires quite a bit of care and feeding when the user wants to change things. BTW, the difference in volume licensing for Pro vs Std was less than $100US the last time I checked - so if you only have 40 users your total savings will be $4000 - for lots of effort.
    <hr>we are hoping to roll out Office XP via Active Directory, will SQL SP's go this way or do they need to be done individually?<hr>
    I think you will have to do any SQL SPs manually, but you may not even have any.

    Hope this helps.
    Wendell

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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    I think this is becoming clear now, if I understand you correctly you are saying that MSDE doesnt get installed as part of the Office Pro installation, we have to specifically install it. If that is the case then i would expect that we will never have to sp our users PCs.

    How can i confirm if MSDE has been installed, does it appear in the Add/Remove Programs?

    this is were the thread gets really dumb - how do I install MSDE, does it come from the SQL CDs or from Office? <img src=/S/stupidme.gif border=0 alt=stupidme width=30 height=30>

    re budget: we are government funded and run as a non profit making organisation. $4000 is a big percentage of our budget but i take your point on the effort involved. It does look however that if the above stands up i may have been concerened over something that doesnt affect us.

    The way we allow access to Access and what people are allowed to do with it are some things for us to consider carefully though.

  11. #11
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    Re: MSDE Service Pack (AccessXP)

    The MSDE install (Access 2000) is done from the Office CDs, but has its own setup program that you have to run (which looks very much like the SQL Server setup program - not surprisingly). The same is true of the SQL Server 2000 Desktop Engine that comes with Office XP. And you should be able to confirm if it is installed by going to the Add/Remove Programs in Control Panel.
    Wendell

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