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  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger
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    Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    When I defrag, I end up with a lot of files that can't be defragged. This is from a log that I saved:Folder fragmentation
    Total folders = 4,442
    Fragmented folders = 42
    Excess folder fragments = 80
    It represents about 5-10 mb.
    How do I defrag all of my files?

  2. #2
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Eli--

    I assume you're using the defrag tool in XP made by Diskeeper. Some of the defragers differ a bit in how they handle system files, but in general the most common reason for this are that system files (particulary with the amount of real estate you're showing) are not meant to be defraged. In other words, it is not something that you're failing to get done with the defrag that you need to strive to do. Also, if you have an NTFS file system, and there maybe security settings that are blocking access to files that aren't system files that could be defraged.

    See:
    Diskeeper FAQ's: I have many files (more than 15) that Diskeeper cannot seem to defragment, why?

    One of the keys to defragging well (and I may be preaching to the choir here) is to keep 20-30% of free space on each drive you're defraggging. When disk drives get quite full, any defrag will run but won't be getting the job done.

    SMBD

  3. #3
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    <hr>How do I defrag all of my files?<hr>
    Well, you can't truly do that. Even if you defragment a volume to perfection, as soon as it's used it stands the chance of become fragmented to some degree again. The important point here is whether or not it affects performance.

    Try to think of it in terms of <img src=/S/money.gif border=0 alt=money width=17 height=15>. For example, you could have ten bills of one unit each (1 dollar in the US), and then ten units of ten (ten 10 dollar bills, for a total of 100). Together, you have 110 dollars, but the number of paper bills that you are carrying doesn't equal 110...you are carrying twenty bills total. With me so far?

    Now, suppose you have a transaction and you are purchasing some computer equipment that will cost you one hundred five (105) dollars. If you had to count out 105 single paper bills, you'd be standing there for a while. But since you "defragmented" your wallet and now are carrying larger denomination bills, you can make this transaction far more efficient.

    This is what is happening on your disk. You've got some loose change, but it isn't hurting anything, because when Windows wants something, the disk can pay for it with large bills and save some time. If the disk had nothing but single units all over the place, it would have to take the necessary time to count up everything it owed Windows and then hand it over, and it would take longer.

    Hope that helps,
    -Mark

  4. #4
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    A bit technical! <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> But I do like it (might even have to steal your "owing Windows" story, 'cause my version has been known to cause <img src=/S/snore.gif border=0 alt=snore width=32 height=15>).
    <font face="Comic Sans MS" color="blue">TimOz</font>
    <img src=/S/flags/Finland.gif border=0 alt=Finland width=30 height=18> <img src=/S/flags/Australia.gif border=0 alt=Australia width=30 height=18>

  5. #5
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    WOW!
    I'm blown away by your detailed answer and the diskkeeper FAQs.
    My drive is about 59% free and it's FAT32.
    I guess that like getting older, this is something I'll have to learn to live with.
    Again, thank you.
    Eli

  6. #6
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Try a third party Defrag program and I feel quit sure it will do a better job. Like PerfectDisk and there are others that do a good job too. But I know for a fact that they work better then the one WinXP has.

  7. #7
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Hi and thank you for the lucid explanation.
    I've learned that I don't have diskkeeper but
    Disk Defragmenter Microsoft Corp, Executive Software Int'l Version: 1.0.
    The strange thing is that I have no fragmented files when I defrag my D drive on the same PC.
    As to whether the performance sufferes, I don't know. I do know that I need Task Manager 3-4 times a day because programs don't respond or I get "Sorry but we're closing x program down" and I send the reports to MS.

  8. #8
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Performance will suffer if your Hard Drive is not Defraged properly or might I say Optimized. You will have to have a third party Defrag Program to do that. WinXP defrag will not do a great job of Optimizing your Hard Drives. Diskeeper or PerfectDisk above will do a much much better job.And you will notice a better performance.

  9. #9
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    "You will notice better performance".

    Well, that is the theory, and I'm sure that benchmarks show faster access times and the rest.

    But with all the CPU power currently available, do you really notice "better performance"?

    The last time I could actually point to this being a fact, was on a Windows 98 box which had never, ever, been defragmented, and was running like a sick pig and crashing often. Having defragmented it (the run lasting over three days!), it got a new lease of life.

    And those who go back to Windows 3.1 and Norton SpeedDisk 4.5 will remember that if you didn't defragment regularly you got all sorts of nasty Windows problems.

    But nowadays, unless your hard disk is in a pathological state, I doubt anyone will notice much difference, before and after a defragment, unless they've not done it for months...

    Discuss!
    <font face="Script MT Bold"><font color=blue><big><big>John</big></big></font color=blue></font face=script>

    Ita, esto, quidcumque...

  10. #10
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    >> The strange thing is that I have no fragmented files when I defrag my D drive on the same PC.

    Not really strange. If your system files are on C: the chances are some will be in use and locked against access. If you only have data files on D: (or applications not currently being used) they can be freely moved.

    Executive Software make Diskeeper and I think what comes as standard with XP is 'Diskeeper Lite'. For most it is good enough, particularly if you have plenty of free space.

    I think your problem where programs do not respond is a separate issue - I would do a thorough ChkDsk on all drives for starters. If this doesn't help, I would start a new thread listing the applications that are giving you grief.

  11. #11
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    I have to concur with you, John. To a point, anyway. I had a recent discovery, if you can call it that, where Diskeeper wasn't defragmenting my hard drive. The cause of that problem was self induced; I set the scheduler to do its thing overnight and that's when my machine goes into standby. You can't keep up the maintenance when the machine is essentially turned off! I had a hit on performance simply due to the fact that my program files and system partition were badly fragmented, and once I cleaned that mess up the system was a great deal more responsive.

    Adding to this mess was the fact that I had upgraded the hard drive a few months back and copied the image from the old drive using the Maxtor software. Since the partitions had never been defragmented after the imaging process, I had a complete mess on my hands.

    I think this situation is somewhat rare, though. This isn't the kind of thing that happens on a regular basis; usually a new hard drive gets a fresh install of Windows too. In the real world, it takes a lot of time for a volume to get so fragmented that you would notice. The down side is that it also happens slowly, over time, so you might not realize the problem until it's gotten bad.
    -Mark

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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    <hr>and I'm sure that benchmarks show faster access times and the rest,<hr>

    OK, I think Eli might be happy with a little faster access time. I have 1050 MHZ and I notice a difference after PerfectDisk Defrags. Maybe my Proccessor isn't big enough for it not to matter., but then again we all have our Opinions. This is just mine. And of course John you have yours.

  13. #13
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Me? Have opinions?? It has never been known!!!

    'Bout time you got yourself one of those 3 GHz computers then you'd hardly notice if your hard disk was fragmented! <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>
    <font face="Script MT Bold"><font color=blue><big><big>John</big></big></font color=blue></font face=script>

    Ita, esto, quidcumque...

  14. #14
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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Yeah I know John, but it's not in the stars yet. I am looken real hard though. I am soon to build me a new Machine,and then will come the Pent 3.0 GHZ mounted on the new Abit IT7 Max 2 MotherBoard. I have to stop now my mouth is watering.
    And yes John you do have Opinions, and most of them are pretty good ones. But if I agree with all of them, I won't have nobody to argue with. <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15> Then again I haven't had much luck at that eather. <img src=/S/drop.gif border=0 alt=drop width=23 height=23> You handle it like a Pro. Dang it. <img src=/S/woops.gif border=0 alt=woops width=58 height=36>

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    Re: Defrag Problem (Win XP)

    Thank you for taking the time to get back to me.
    I've d/l Diskkeeper on a trial basis and I don't think that it did much better than Defragger. I'll keep working at it.
    Eli

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