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Thread: CSS

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    CSS

    I have just started to learn CSS but am not impressed. It is OK with tidying up simple things like fonts, backgrounds and the like but with something like Tables it not only becomes a nightmare but takes away the flexibility of having several tables on a web page in order to align text and images. And when I do get CSS sorted out for a web page I find the html has been bloated with a lot of unreadable guff and the file size has increased by some 25%! Have others found the same and given up on CSS or is it something we just have to get to grips with?

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    Silver Lounger Bruce K's Avatar
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    Re: CSS

    Hi, Roger ~

    Actually, CSS makes your life much, much easier, especially when coding across a series of standardized pages within a site. I have never encountered nor heard of problems with tables and alignment of text/images. I don't understand what you mean by the bloated and unreadable stuff as CSS enables the opposite.

    Could you provide some examples?

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    Re: CSS

    The main problem appears to be replacing simple table tags generated by Frontpage with a massive internal style sheet covering some ten or twenty or so different tables to every page. I have got into the habit of using tables extensively just to help line up typing so that it appears OK on different browsers. It seems much more cumbersome writing html and css direct instead of using a wysiwyg editor. Guess I will just have to persevere and do the job properly.

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    Re: CSS

    <hr>...tags generated by Frontpage...<hr>
    This explains the bloat. Frontpage is notorious for generating horribly bloated pages!

    I agree with Bruce here - CSS is very powerful. The typical way to use CSS is by putting all of your style information in a .CSS file, then referencing that file with multiple pages in your site (using the <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="MyCSSFile.CSS"> line). Some editing software will include the style info directly in each HTML page. While there's nothing wrong with this, it's less than efficient if you have to make the same change to multiple pages rather than making one change to a .CSS file.

    I admit that I haven't spent the time to learn to use CSS for layout yet, but it's designed to replace using tables for layout (although tables are still intended to use for organizing data). I usually use the formatting capabilities - font, size, colors, borders, etc...

    For more info - and straight from the horse's mouth - check the World Wide Web Consortium's CSS homepage.

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    Re: CSS

    I use linked style sheets extensively on my intranet web site. They make my pages have a consistent look and feel. They certainly speed up the process of creating new pages.

    The linked style sheets provide me with another huge advantage. They help my pages be Section 508 (Americans with Disabilities Act) compliant. I use the style sheets for font choices, colors, alignment, etc. Here's how they help with Section 508. Let's say I want to use red for the color of the fonts. I code that in the style sheet. For a visually disabled viewer, they can override my style sheet and use theirs. This enables them to make the font whatever color that works better for them. Red is just used as an example since there are many color-blind people who can't see red. So they might have black as their font color in the style sheet.

    I have to admit that linked style sheets can be just a little frustrating with tables. I use the <th> tag frequently on my tables to help comply with the Section 508 issues. There have been a few occasions when I would prefer to use different settings for the <th> tag than are in my style sheets. Then you have to get creative. The <td> tag can be even trickier because the overall settings in the style sheet may not be appropriate for all cells. It's just a matter of adding the correct code to over ride the style sheet. Unfortunately, that may violate some 508 standards depending on the level of additional coding. For most folks developing web pages, being compliant with Section 508 isn't an issue. Working for the US government, makes it an issue for me.

    I completely agree with Mark that FrontPage can severely bloat the html for tables! The worst part is that you can remove the unnecessary code and FrontPage will put it back in. I like more control and often tweak the pages in Notepad. However, I also use the FrontPage extensions and need to edit in FrontPage.

    Good luck with this feature. The more you use .css pages, the more you will like them.

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    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: CSS

    I think there's something of a debate as to whether we should continue using tables for general layout or <DIV> tags and positioning instructions. Tables can be too rigid, but they're sure easier to understand. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> You can get most of the benefits of CSS without throwing out HTML tables, and it sounds as though you should not be pushed into being too much of a CSS purist before you can see any tangible benefits from it.

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