Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, Br. Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Update advice (XP Home)

    I purchased a new Dell computer for my daughter for university. 3000 miles between us... Did not have a chance to update everything myself while onsite, so now she is faced with that daunting task, and she is not a techie. The Windows update site lists 24 Critical Updates or Security Updates. She is asking which ones to install...

    Can they all be installed in one fell swoop, or is that just asking for trouble? How do you priorize otherwise? How do you know which updates go together? How do you know if one supercedes another?

    If I was physically on that machine, I would probably take them one at a time and just take my chances, but that's not really an option in this situation.

    feeling kinda lost....
    --------------------------------------------------
    Jack MacDonald
    Vancouver, Canada

  2. #2
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    I was reading about a feature called "Remote Assistance" when an XP user invites another XP user to do stuff to their computer remotely. She would set a password on this, of course, but at least you could view the screen and see what WindowsUpdate is recommending. Whether performance would be tolerable, and whether the various intervening firewalls will permit it, I couldn't tell you.

  3. #3
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    Remote Assistance is a very good idea of Jefferson's for a father who is familiar with this stuff helping his daughter away at school--some of my friends' kids age 12 and up are reversing that role and becoming the IT managers of their household. These will help you use Remote Assistance which is agreat way for you to use her computer 3000 miles away when she lets you to check things over system wise, and she can follow along and watch and learn from what you're doing so it has that double edged sword of teaching her some tricks and good habits as well:

    Using Remote Assistance: Get or Give Help When You Need It

    Screenshots on Using Remote Assistance

    Labmice Articles on Nailing Remote Assistance Well--Scroll Down Midway to Links

    Configuring Remote Assistance

    300546: Overview of Remote Assistance in Win XP

    300692: Description of the Remote Assistance Connection Process

    Using Remote Assistance via Instant Messaging--the Easiest and Most Efficient Way

    SMBP

  4. #4
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, Br. Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    Thanks for the info about remote assistance and the Windows Update. Unfortunately in this situation we have one WinXP Home and one Win98 machine, so Remote Assistance not applicable. However, I have used VNC in the past to great success, and will consider it again for the current stuff.

    Could you please clarify for me the difference between Windows Update and the MS Security Site -- I logged onto the MS Security Site from my computer, and it *appeared* to be the Windows Update. I don't get the difference...
    --------------------------------------------------
    Jack MacDonald
    Vancouver, Canada

  5. #5
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    At relatively little cost you can upgrade that 98 machine to an XP machine and then you'd be good to go. The idea of working on the computer with your daughter away at school and showing her some habits that can stick with her for a long time sounds very useful.

    The differnce is that the Security Site is administered by Tech Net and these are entirely different divisions within Microsoft. They use different servers and a much more efficient downloading system and they notify you when updates that are security patches for various versions of software are available and they do it efficiently. It has many of the same "updates" but the security site is not carrying the baggage of so many problems that Win Update is. The reason more people don't use it is that Windows Update has the momentum of being the prime updating mechanism in most people's minds.

    You definitely should use these patches in addition to having a good firewall and updating your viral definitions manually daily unless you say have some enterprise service that really does this automatically. Symantec's enterprise services do, but their end user antivirus requires going to the Intelligent Updater site I linked before and getting them. At the very least, as far as security patches, you want to get the Critical ones, and the hardware related ones.

    You should be able to get your updates and show your daughter how to get them and have her subscribe to the newsletter--takes a second you only have to supply an email address. You'll never get something with an attachment as an update from Microsoft unless you have specifically talked to their support about a particular problem and they have told you they are sending you something like that. There are a number of fixes for special problems in KB's in that category now. What you will get is an announcement of the security bulletin that links you to the download.


    Microsoft is revamping Windows Update right now--it will include updates for everything and will be called the Microsoft Updater and is to be released within 12 months from now. They hope to address the many many problems, that have been reported to them, and the ones they have collected from their own Newgroups on Windows Update available on their site or through the OE newsreader.

    Please let me know if you have any specific other questions and I'll try to answer them.

    SMBP

  6. #6
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    There are two security sites, really.

    End-user security bulletins: http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/
    The information here points you toward Automatic Update (in XP) and WindowsUpdate (on the web), but
    the bulletins have a cross-reference (right-side sidebar) to more technical information.

    Technical security bulletins: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.asp
    The information here tends to be more detailed and points to individual install-it-yourself downloads.

    Try both and see which you prefer. No charge. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

  7. #7
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    These links are in Post 294875. I found out today Windows Update is being scrapped in its present form and the Microsoft Update will take its place released in about 12 months--Beta testing soon. It will attempt to incorporate updates from all MS software. I know who to contact to feed every glitch I have collected from the Lounge and other ng's to the people who are redoing it and I will do my best hoping they don't reappear in the new format.

    SMBP

  8. #8
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    Jack--


    I suggest at least now, it will be more straight forward for her to download from the MS Security Site. I prefer it to Windows Update, at least for her to "catch up" because she'll have a neater list and I think the patches simply have a better chance of getting installed "glitch free." Then if she wants, she can subscribe to the Security Bulletin and she'll get an email in her in box every time a patch or patches are issued for security. It takes very little time or Techy ability to bookmark the Office site, Win Media Player, Direct X, for updates that may be other than security like say Windows Media Player 10. You probably follow areas like that well enough to send her a link and say "Hey--Win Media 10 is out--you may want to try it."

    The question of how you priorize is the 64 dollar question, but there is really a great deal of comfort in what Jefferson points out in Post 294534

    BTW, if she is using Norton anything, have her go to Intelligent Updater Service so she'll get daily updates--daily to Symantec means Monday through Friday but it's better than Live Update which is every Wednesday--weekly. Whavever AV she's using--just get her in the habit of updating as often as they offer it--takes a few seconds from a quick start shortcut.

    Here are sites that will help her--obviously the recent critical patches are pretty mandatory, and if she were my daughter, I'd tell her to download everyone on the security list--she can uninstall if she thinks one is causing her a problem--and the freeze slow kinks have been ironed out--although rare problems happen. If you want to monitor for problem patches, you can watch Woody, the Lounge and CNET or any sites you like and you'll be fine. If problems surface, somebody is going to pop it on the lounge fast.

    Here are some links that may help her:

    Complete Security Bulletin List

    Hotfix Update List; Search and Link for Newsletter. The link is set for IE but she can put in Win XP, or whatever and they'll come up in chronological order.

    This may help you:

    204528: Win Update Support Links

    Win XP Hotfix Installation Guide

    Installing Multiple Hotfixes With One Reboot:

    296861: How to Install Multiple Windows Updates or Hotfixes with Only One Reboot

    282402: How to Configure IE to Have Up to 10 Simultaneous Download Sessions at Once

    hth,

    SMBP

  9. #9
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    12,560
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    Where is your source for this scraping of Windows Update?

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    The source is the Microsoft TS2 presenter team, live on September 18, 2003 and I have the powerpoint availalbe and will show you the list it came from. I gave you a verbatim direct quote for the talk, but I wish now I had drilled down and asked but I can easily do that and I will try to get as much information as they can get from me. I haven't seen anything on their sites including MS Press Pass, or the betas or the MS watch type sites, but I also haven't looked hard either. It just came up out of the blue as part of a presentation and it had a place on the prepared powerpoint. I'll screenshot it when I get a minute to find the slide.

    Since you're based in Seattle, the home of some good late, the recent rejection of expresso taxes, and close to Redmond, and I don't know if you were with Microsoft, but with your rich background you're probably in the catbird seat to find some things out on this, and I appreciate this.

    It's 100% real, it's promised (but so have other MS software releases been) in 12 months. I don't know a lot of detail but my source is 200% legitimate and can navigate Microsoft products and teach them as well as anyone on the planet and is a serious engineer at Microsoft.

    SMBP

  11. #11
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    > These links are in Post 294875.

    I didn't read up that far in the thread when I posted. I looked for them now and I must admit that I prefer my explanations. <img src=/S/wink.gif border=0 alt=wink width=15 height=15>

    > Microsoft Update will take its place released in about 12 months

    I think predictions that exceed 3 months should be viewed with a good degree of skepticism.

  12. #12
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    1) The explanations that you "much prefer" included the same two links as in my post first. I don't consider this a competition--I continue to learn a lot from you. So you much prefer the exact same links that are the exact same links that are the exact same two links. <img src=/S/rtfm.gif border=0 alt=rtfm width=24 height=23> whatever rtfm means--but I knew it--there's a website called www.rtfm.com!

    End-user security bulletins: http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/
    Technical security bulletins: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.asp linked in Post 295205 this thread are the same links as in 294875. How can you much prefer the same two websites in one post a couple inches from another?


    2) "Microsoft Update will take its place released in about 12 months... think predictions that exceed 3 months should be viewed with a good degree of skepticism."

    You've probably been watching Microsoft's predictions longer than I have. This was a statement from a Microsoft Engineer, one of the best communicators I've had the pleasure to watch in action, and one of their most talented. It was on her powerpoint, she meant it--she's very plugged into a lot of product divisions at Microsoft, and I'll follow up on it. She was not speculating--when she says they're doing it--they are. I don't know how to nail down the figure. I was just the cub reporter that was 5 feet away when the comment was made on a new developments from Microsoft powerpoint slide. Your scepticism is directed at the promise of one of Microsoft's most talented engineers--not my promise or prediction, because if I had control of Windows Update, it would have been turned upside down--been clear--not had the download stalls--not had the abysmally poor driver delivery--and not had the panopoly/laundry list of problems listed here in the Windows Update Troubleshooter
    chronically and consistently.

    How fast they'll do something about Windows Update, <img src=/S/time.gif border=0 alt=time width=23 height=39> I don't know--but I really hope they'll do it sooner faster than later. I know they emphatically say they are, and they have incorporated a Power Point saying this in their presentations all over the U.S.

    I do know this, and it's not a prediction--50% of the latest ten i.e. 5/10 of the last XP Lounge threads right now are about problems with Windows Update as a delivery vehicle for Security Hotfixes--that's 50% or a statistically significant amount of thread subjects and it seems to be growing exponentially here and on Microsoft's Windows Update newsgroup if you go to sites that monitor the volume of Microsoft newsgroup postings per minute per hour per day per week that Microsoft Research has initiated.

    My point is that it's compelling to do so, and it sure could be done since in the climate of increased cyber security compromises, buffer overflows, and RPF flaws, the vulnerablilties are going to grow and it is going to be more important to keep up with the security fixes.

    SMBP

  13. #13
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    Looking at the never-ending cascade of glitches and confusion and the scheme of things, with the compelling reasons for better Security from Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing initiative, I've got to say that if I had several billion dollars as a personal fortune, and prospects of making several more and was the CEO and Chief Software Architect and along with my best friend at college had a with a large amount of discretion on how I delivered those profits to the Stockholders, and in fact, my company waited a full 28 years to declare its first stock dividend in January 2003 since the company started, I had an average of $49 billion on hand in reserve plus or minus a couple billion, and an average annual cash flow of $14 billion, then I believe I could truly find a way to make a better update engine for my highly profitable software happen faster than 3 months. It could happen in 3 days--no question if the Chief Software Architect and Chairman of the Board and his boyhood friend, the Chief Executive Officer of their company, wanted that.

    Gartner's IT Security Summit this week in London was that significant changes with clinical impact from Trustworthy Computing will occur in 5 years, so maybe predictions about when Microsoft will deliver are specious at best--that's why I never make them.

    Software Flaws Will Cost Users Dear

    SMBP

  14. #14
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    23,112
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 93 Times in 89 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    <P ID="edit" class=small>(Edited by jscher2000 on 19-Sep-03 21:40. Illustration added.)</P>Explanations. You know my views about links requiring explanations. Let's not go there again.

    With respect to a Microsoft release prediction, I absolutely will not hold you accountable for the likelihood that they will miss it.

  15. #15
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Wardrobe Malfunction Junction, Derry
    Posts
    2,953
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Update advice (XP Home)

    If you mean that when you link you should context it briefly, I always try to do that. But once explained for example, someone brings up that Remote Assistance is a useful way for a father who is more software-oriented with Office or some other software to help his daughter away at school or his mother with her new computer. So you intro with "Here are some useful sites to help you use Remote Assistance" and then you lists a few links. You try to strike a balance between a staggering long list that nobody has time to read, and getting enough links to give them a sampling of the best you can find--but if the're all on Remote Assistance from MS or other good sites like Lab Mice--5 or 6 links shouldn't need contexting. Not being defensive--trying to understand.

    If you have two Technet Security sites, and you say blandly "Here are some links that may help"--it may not have flair, polish, and panache, but when the link shows a list of security patches by dates that pretty much explains itself.

    If you parse them, I guess they can be contexted in more precise detail in a few words--but even "here are some links" gets the job done. I guess you're right about Windows Update though in the first link, you really can choose between a fork in the road. I always take those bulletins and go over to that right-side bar for the express reason that it keeps me off Windows Update, and I can just click to the download in my language for my version and have been doing it so much I forgot to distinguish that Windows update is an option on one of the links. In that way, it might even help people navigate Win Update, but then you're left with the potential download problems from its servers, driver problems, and its glitch of telling you that you already have what you don't have--a reverse on its automatic notification telling you you need something you already have.

    SMBP

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •