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Thread: Startup Screens

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    Uranium Lounger CWBillow's Avatar
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    Startup Screens

    I installed W2K on a W98 formatted drive...

    When I got to W98 dos at startup, it runs the config.sys and autoexec... and it'll try to run the msdos.sys (if there is one)...

    I was just trying to get rid of the startup graphic, but the changes I made to the msdos.sys that worked under W98 before give me errors now...

    Such as:

    ;FORMAT
    ;
    Options
    Logo = 0

    How come this gives me an error?

    I end up having to delete all the lines (or rem them) to end the errors...

    ??

    Chuck
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    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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    Re: Startup Screens

    You may have altered the size; the file itself has to be no less than 1,024KB in size. If not that, then your syntax is wrong. I'm not sure if the text you posted is the error that you are seeing (I am going to assume that it is). Also, make sure that there are no spaces between the commands you add and their values. For example:
    <pre>[OPTIONS]
    LOGO=0
    BOOTGUI=1</pre>


    A quick search of the web usually turns up the answer to questions like this. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> Microsoft has a complete explanation of the file here: 118579: Contents of the Windows Msdos.sys File
    And you may want to peek at this article for a less technical but thorough reference. It also contains some "undocumented" commands.
    -Mark

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    Uranium Lounger CWBillow's Avatar
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    Re: Startup Screens

    Mark:

    Attached is the MSDOS file... still get an error message, and it throws me to the menu offering Safe Mode, etc...

    Dunno...

    Chuck
    Attached Files Attached Files
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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    Re: Startup Screens

    Edited to add an additional note regarding file attributes.

    OK, I think I've found the problem. Your MSDOS.SYS file starts with the text ;format. If memory serves this confuses the interpreter when it parses the file. Each section should begin with a bracketed heading that describes the content that follows.

    The additional lines in yours are also somewhat different than what I am used to seeing. They are missing the alpha characters at the end of the padding lines (the xxxxxx's), which shouldn't amount to a hill of beans, but you never know.

    Lastly, make sure that you set the proper attributes for this file. Those should be Read-Only, System, and Hidden.

    I've attached a cleaned up version for you; try it and see if it works.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    -Mark

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    Uranium Lounger CWBillow's Avatar
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    Re: Startup Screens

    Mark:

    I guess I'll just leave this one alone...

    Your file didn't work either. Yours and mine both work on a pure Win98 machine... so there is some sort of "sharing" going on at the OS level.

    Since it is only critical in my "need to know" why the heck it doesn't work in the same manner as the msdos.sys file did/does on a Win98 machine, it isn't critical enough to take up any more of this board's time and space...

    I just wish MS didn't use "undocumented" and "unknown" and "inexplicable" interchangably when talking about operating systems! And certainnly stop ignoring and / or denying existence of such items.

    Thanks for the effort though.

    Regards,
    Chuck
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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    Re: Startup Screens

    I think the problem here is usage. I do not have a dual-boot machine to inspect, but Windows NT/2000/XP place a "dummy" MSDOS.SYS file at their root for compatibility. All NT-based operating systems will replace the boot sector if installed with another operating system that does not use the NT method. Not knowing the details of your installation, I can only make guesses - hopefully you did not install both 98 and 2000 into the same partition! If it annoys you enough, re-install 98, and then use Windows 2000's setup CD to repair the boot sector. It's a little painful since you will be working "against the current."

    You are partially right that there is some sharing going on. On the root partition, the NT boot sector starts the system, waits for the user to choose which operating system they prefer, and takes the appropriate actions from there. If a DOS based operating system is selected, control is then passed to a copy of the original DOS boot sector, and DOS/Windows 9x never know that something happened before they did. This is why on dual boot systems you will find a file called BOOTSECT.DOS.

    Maybe that does nothing to solve your problem, but hopefully it elucidates what is happening behind the curtain. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    -Mark

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    Re: Startup Screens

    Mark:

    "...If a DOS based operating system is selected, control is then passed to a copy of the original DOS boot sector, and DOS/Windows 9x never know that something happened before they did..."

    That is EXACTLY what I am muddled about....

    When I converted over to W2K from W98, I tried all the choices: 1) upgrading a pre-existing W98 install; 2) letting the install set the partition to NTFS (what a disaster); 3) let the install CD format the drive in FAT32 (which is then named Win98 in subsequent reference; and 4) formatted the drive in DOS (again called Windows 98), and installing the Win2K "on top" of this W98 format. The latter is the setup I have stayed with, due to versatility and compatibility advantages...

    The MSDOS.SYS files I sent you AND then you sent me BOTH work when run on a Win98 machine... but NOT on mine... so, what's happening here is that W2k is evidently copying some theoretical boot system to the drive if you select Win98 at boot-up... NOT necessarily the boot setup the user had configured... so the install, unlike what is claims during the W2k install (leaving the existing file system alone) DOES set it up differently... how IT wants it... which I suppose is OK, if they would JUST LET US KNOW!

    But, thanks for the effort, and I did learn some more about installs from all this...

    Regards,
    Chuck
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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    Re: Startup Screens

    Firstly, I understand your frustration. Believe me, I do. I'm just glad that hair grows back. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> Part of the misunderstanding I believe you have is understanding where some of the lines are drawn. Let me explain.

    The term file system refers to how data is stored, organized, and accessed on the disk. We can compare these to the modern miracle of engines. There are steam driven, gasoline powered, and diesel engines. All provide mechanical power. The difference is in the methods they employ to do so. Steam engines are not as efficient as gasoline engines. Diesel engines provide more torque than either of the other two. They all provide mechanical assistance and have their place. File systems provide a means of accessing the data on the disk, but how different file systems accomplish those means vary.

    The boot sector itself is special. It contains instructions to load an operating system, and can be considered a separate entity from the file system on the disk. It works in conjunction with the system BIOS to get the system up and running. Many moons ago, computers did not start themselves. The term booting comes from an old phrase: to pull itself up by the boot straps. After the power on self test (POST) completes successfully, the BIOS must load the Master Boot Record (MBR) from the hard disk or a 3.5" disk and run the program that the MBR contains (the boot program). This is where all of the other files - MSDOS.SYS et al - come into play.

    In a Windows 2000 system, the boot program is instructed to load NTLDR into memory. In a DOS based system, a small file called IO.SYS is loaded, and it in turn checks for CONFIG.SYS and then MSDOS.SYS. When you install Windows NT systems (NT, 2000 and XP) the setup routine checks to see whether the boot sector it will overwrite with an NT boot sector is a valid DOS boot sector. If the boot sector is a valid DOS boot sector, setup copies the boot sector's contents to a file named bootsect.dos in the root directory of the partition. This way, you can load multiple operating systems onto the computer. If you choose to boot into a non-NT based OS, the DOS boot sector is loaded into memory by NTLDR, and a warm reboot takes places, executing the code it contains as if it had been read from disk. Code in bootsect.dos continues a DOS-specific boot, such as one into Windows 98. Thus, Windows 2000 isn't doing anything theoretical; it's just performing a really slick workaround to allow you to boot to whatever OS you want.

    The point of all this? When you installed Windows 2000, you made changes to the way the system starts - regardless of what file system you choose to employ. I have never looked to see what 2000 and its brethren do with the original MSDOS.SYS, but I believe that they leave them alone. If you have a dual boot system and encounter errors when booting into Windows 98, it's likely that the problem lies within one of the startup files for Windows 98 itself.
    -Mark

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    Re: Startup Screens

    Mark:

    I think it is all a "template" startup that is "firmwired" into W2K... and whatever we pick is just played afterward...

    Ah well...

    Chuck
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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    Re: Startup Screens

    You may be right. I have never worked with it in a dual boot scenario as you have here, so I am at a loss to explain it any better. Now, though, you have me thinking about uses for an old PII 400 that is collecting dust in my workshop... <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> Good thing I'm divorced already, at I don't need to make excuses so the wife will let me go putter about. <img src=/S/exclamation.gif border=0 alt=exclamation width=15 height=15>
    -Mark

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    Re: Startup Screens

    The issue - AFAIK - is that MSDOS.SYS is required for the same sort of reason that ProgMan.exe still lurks in Systems directories. Win98 doesn't use it but it won't boot without it. One of these "core code" issues that pop up periodically in various parts of MS software.
    Gre

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    Re: Startup Screens

    unkamunka:

    Just put there to distract and disturb...

    It's just like file naming conventions... AAAAAAAAAA.AAA, AaaaaAaaa.aaa... it's whatever the author feels in the mood for... or at least that's what MS told me at one point...

    Regards,
    Chuck
    -------------------------------------------------
    "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment."

    ~ A(lan) A(lexander) Milne (1882-1956)- "House at Pooh Corner"

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