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  1. #1
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    Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on Win

    Using Word's table features, I created a template for making a set of calendar months. Using that template, I created a document file (.doc) with 12 pages, each having a table showing seven columns and five rows. Each page also has the days of the week in a line above the table columns and a coupla text boxes at the left of the table for the month to print vertically with the year beneath it horizontally displayed. All is well to this point.

    Now, I want to insert pages between those bearing the tables and other text. When I Insert/Break/Page or Next Page, I get very unpredictable results. I have the unprinted mark-up symbols displaying so I can see line feeds, paragraph breaks, page breaks, column breaks etc.and still can't figure out what's going on.

    The first line on the first page is a list of the days of the week ending with a 'new paragraph' symbol. Immediately beneath that is the 7x5 cell table with equal-sized columns and equal-but-different-sized rows. There is a page break because the down-arrow key goes from the last row of the prior page to the days-of-the-week line on the next page and the screen indicates the next page and line in the area at the bottom of the Word screen.

    How can I insert a fresh, new, first page? How can I insert pages between those containing the tables?

    All suggestions greatly appreciated and gratefully received.

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on Win

    Is the problem related to floating objects and anchor points? Are you displaying the anchor points for floating objects?

    Without seeing your file it is hard to picture what your problem is but I would try this. Go to normal view and put your cursor on the hard page break and insert another one (Ctrl-Enter). What happens when you do this?
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    G' day Andrew,

    Thanks for the response.

    I have viewed my file using View/Normal and find that there is a dottied line across, and apparently behind the table, coincident with the bottom edge of the first row. As to displaying floating objects and anchors, I'm not familiar with how to do that.

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    G'day Bob

    The dotted line will be indicating a soft page break. Is that where you expect to see a page break?

    I still can't picture in my mind what your problem actually is. What level of user are you - are you new to Word or is this just the first time you have encountered this issue?

    I think you will need to attach a sample of your file so we can work out what the problem is.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    Tried to send a file, Andrew; but got a message that the file was too big.

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    Zip the document and attach the zip file. The limit is 100 KB.

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    OK, guys, here's a zipped version of my table problem.

    Thanks for the help.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    OK, now we can see the table, the first thing you should do is investigate the table wrapping options. The first table is set to wrap the text around it. I think this is what is tripping you up.

    Change your page zoom to "Two pages" so you can see what happens and then select the first table and go to Tables > Table Properties. Under the table tab, set the test wrapping to None. Does this give you back the behaviour you expect?
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    Thank you , again, Andrew.

    When I changed text wrapping to 'none', the number of rows of the first table changed from 1 to 4. There should be 5 rows per table, all displaying on the same page. I went thru the entire file, table by table, and changed the text wrapping option to 'none' on each. Now, the first 5 tables will print only 4 rows (splitting tables across pages); but with the 6th and all successive tables, 5 rows appear as they should. I also selected each table one at a time and, in Table/TableProperties/Rows, unchecked the "Allow Rows to Break Across Pages" box in each. This had no effect. No section breaks appear in Normal view; only the soft page breaks appear. Without section breaks, the page setup should be universal to the file (shouldn't it?); therefore if one table prints on a page why don' all of them? The table cell dimensions are the same row height and column width. Another anomaly is that the text boxes don't appear as they were positioned until the 7th page displays, then they are all as intended.

    I HATE TABLES!

    But I sure do appreciate the help I get from you guys at the Lounge.

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    Don't blame the tables the problem you see is not specifically the tables. Bear with me this is a little obscure but important.

    Once you set all the tables to not wrap, they are free to paginate according to what fits on the page. Now you will already know that above each table is a paragraph of text with the days of the week on it. Those paragraphs are set to have paragraph spacing before "Auto". Now I dont know how big an auto is but I suspect it is as big as the type size plus one point - lets assume it is 13pt before.

    The trick is that this paragraph spacing before applies on some pages and not on others. This then leaves less space for the table rows to fit into therefore some fall onto the next page.
    Why you say...(go on say it)
    Well, Microsoft wanted it that way. When a paragraph falls on the top of a page (and the section is formatted to align to the top) then the paragraph spacing before is adhered to under two conditions
    1. A hard page break has been applied immediately in front of the paragraph
    2. The paragraph is formatted with a Page Break Before.
    If the paragraph doesn't meet either of these conditions (ie the paragraph just happens to sit at the top of the page rather than being forced there) then the paragraph space before is ignored for that particular paragraph.

    Surprisingly enough, I actually agree with Microsoft doing this - it would really get up my nose if I forced a paragraph to be on the top of a page AND have paragraph space before and Word chose to ignore my paragraph spacing. However if you don't like it then there is a fix. Go to your Tools > Options > Compatability and search through there for a check boxes which start with "Suppress extra line spacing etc etc" Play with these settings to get comfortable with what they do but remember these are turned off by default so when you open the file on another machine you should expect these settings to be off on that machine.

    The floating text boxes are another story best left until you understand the mechanics described above.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: Using Tables and Inserting pages (OXP SP-2 on

    Many, Many THANKS, Andrew and Hans!

    The document is complete and behaves as expected. One of the problems I was experiencing, I think, was that paragraph formatting in those first lines of text was reverting to a default with Auto spacing before. I had specifically changed them to zero spacing before, yet they were back to Auto. When I changed them all again, everything lined up beautifully.

    I wish the Help files would contain some diagrams showing the order of operations for placing information based on options in such cases, although the number of permutations and combinations probably precludes the possibility. Oh well, WYSIWYG features helped some.

    I really can't thank you guys enough. WELL DONE!

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