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  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger
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    X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    <font color=blue>OOPS! After posting this I discovered that < NOFRAMES > exists and FrontPage puts it in automatically. So, having discovered that to be a non-problem, does anyone have anything to say about disadvantages of frames? (Aside from a bad design that traps you in a framed page...I *did* provide a way out of the framed system!)</font color=blue>

    I have a project that requires use of frames. Are there known issues with browser compatibility re. frames and some kind of javascript-based test for detecting and dealing with browser/frame incompatibilities? Also, are there specific issues with using frames re. accessibility?

    At the very least, if frames are not supported by some systems, I'd like a way to redirect to a page stating that the site uses frames. for example, I have a warning for non-javascript clients attempting to use the system with the following:

    < NOSCRIPT >
    < META HTTP-EQUIV="refresh" CONTENT="0; URL=No_Javascript.html" >
    < /NOSCRIPT >

    To redirect people to a page stating they need scripting enabled to use a data collection system. something similar, like < NOFRAME > could work for now to tell people they need a framed-enabled browser. However, I also need to know what issues, if any, exist for the use of frames.

    TIA

  2. #2
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    Two drastically contrasting thoughts:
    1) With modern browsers (4+ or 5+), there's no reason to shy away from frames based on browsers that don't support them.
    2) With server-side processing (such as Server Side Includes or User Controls in .NET) and support of inline frames (IE 4+ and NS 6+) there's rarely a reason to use standard frameset pages.

  3. #3
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    ok, i was thinking frames aren't that big of a deal anymore (speaking to no. 1) -- as to no.2, I suppose you are referring to IFRAME? In my experience (not vast at all on this one) IFRAME is nice for making a 'subwindow' on a page. For the project I am working on, the classic Narrow Left Frame that Just Hangs Around and the Large Right Frame that Changes On Selections works dandy.

    'Sides, the problem I am having (or rather, the Obsticle <img src=/S/bash.gif border=0 alt=bash width=35 height=39> ) is some obscure regulation in State of Texas Govn't Code against frames, period. From what I can get from Those Who Obstruct, there may simple be an anti-frame bias. And irrational bureaucracy is one of the most difficult things to overcome!! <img src=/S/boxedin.gif border=0 alt=boxedin width=25 height=20>

    So I may just try to ignore the whole debate and keep truckin with the project and see if anyone really cares...

    Thanks for the feedback, tho/

    sps

  4. #4
    5 Star Lounger jujuraf's Avatar
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    For the most part, there's no technical reason why you should't use frames. There are, however, many usage issues which cause most people to avoid frames completely. My company forbids their use on their web sites and for good reason - 1) difficult for the user to bookmark, 2) makes searching harder (for the end user and for the search engines), 3) doesn't compy with accessibility rules, 4) easy for a framed site to get another site 'stuck' inside of it (another page displayed in one of your frames), etc. Anything you can do with frames, can be done with CSS and other features that will eliminate the above mentioned problems.

    Just food for thought... <img src=/S/shrug.gif border=0 alt=shrug width=39 height=15>

    Deb

  5. #5
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    One nice thing about frames is scrolling one page of content while others remain static (e.g., for navigation). Can that be done without frames? (And I don't mean by those weird blocks that slide up and down using JavaScript as you scroll. Those are terribly distracting.)

  6. #6
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    of the set of reasons not to use frames, the only one that seems a problem for my system is accessiblity. Since this is an asp-driven form suite, I don't want people trying to bookmark anything but the 'main' form section (which isn't framed anyway). Also, there's only one section that really requires frames and I give the option to 'break out' of the frames on all the subforms. people shouldn't be surfing around when they're filing a report on the system anyway...

    well I'll just keep going as it is now and see what happens in the future.

    thanks for the feedback tho!

  7. #7
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    The CSS statement "position" allows for text blocks that remain fixed in position. Only problem is not all browsers support it. But when it works, its a beautiful thing.

    here's a snippet from one of my stylesheets
    <pre>position: absolute; /* position fixed works for netscape 6.2 Opera 6*/
    </pre>


    Cheers
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
    WebGenii Home Page
    Moderator: Spreadsheets, Other MS Apps, Presentation Apps, Visual Basic for Apps, Windows Mobile

  8. #8
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: X-Platform-ready Framed Site

    I'll have to read up on that. I thought all the positioning commands were page-centric, not window-centric.

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