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Thread: Add Hard Drive

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    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Add Hard Drive

    My current machine only has a 20GB HD and I'm at about 10% free space. I have a new 120GB drive coming in (WD 120 GB WD1200JB 7200 RPM 8MB BUFFER ATA 100 HARD DRIVE) but I'm not clear on how I should address the install.

    OS: XP Pro (SP-2)
    Processer: 2.4MHz
    RAM: 1GB

    I suppose my question is what I should do about the Master/Slave issue. It seems a waste to just trash the 20GB and replace it with the 120GB, but I'm not certain what config is the best. I have some rather large programs (i.e. XP Developer) and wonder what might be done as far as what files would go on which drive; I only presume it would be simplest to have the original drive (20GB) be the boot drive. I use a Iomega removable hard drive (REV 35GB) for data and system back-ups. With two hard drives I wonder how that would effect the SYSTEM back-up strategy. Also, is it as simple as cut/paste files from one drive to the other? New territory for me here; never done any of this before.

    Any help/advise/input appreciated.
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    Alan:

    Wow, thanks for all the info! I'll need to <img src=/S/munch.gif border=0 alt=munch width=19 height=17> on all of it for a while, but that's just what I was looking for. While I have little if any real experience with hardware issues, I have learned in my escapades with Access apps that forethought goes a long way toward avoiding problems later. Thanks again, and I'm sure I'll have further questions later (like how to put out an electrical fire). <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    FWIW I've not found WD to be a 'quirky' brand that prefers to be master. Did you maybe mean this specific model? I've no experience with that but I've got several others (10 & 20GB) running as slaves in various machines with no problems. Like any other drive, I just change the jumper to slave.

    I *think* I remember the WD preferring to be on a different cable than the CD-ROM though-but it's been years since I put HD & CD on the same cable anyway so I'm no longer certain that it was a WD I was using at the time.

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    I can't remember full details except for the most recent case. I know that the WD was set up as slave and showed up as D:, but Windows98 "insisted" on trying to install onto D:. The only way to coerce it to go the Fujitsu on C: was to pull the IDE connector on the WD and go from there. Having seen the problems of having Windows installed on D: before (also a WD) I wasn't falling for that one! <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    I asked two of the hardware techs at work about it and they each had stories about WDs being problematic in some context or other. That said, I've not heard of nor had any problems once things were established. I run one happily as a slave now. There's also a fairly current thread on a WD problem with jumper settings, but I don't know the details off hand. But maybe part of the "quirk" is that they can also behave as expected <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>.

    Alan

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    It's certainly possible. I don't use a lot of WD drives because I remember a bad run they had several years ago. (1.2GB models, I think) Of course all brands have occasional bad models-and my memory of the WD problem was that it was a problem in the manufacturing, not a design flaw. Whatever it was we had a whole bunch of those drives, all purchased at the same time, go bad very quickly. They were replaced under warranty & WD eventually admitted that the entire batch had problems, but it was too late-I didn't use another WD drive for the next couple of years.

    I started using them again a couple of years ago though when they came out with their Special Edition with the 8MB cache. Haven't encountered any problems or quirks although I'm still cautious, but currently I tend to regard their problems as being with specific models rather than belonging to the entire brand.

    I've certainly never encountered the problem you described. In fact there have been times when I've wanted to install Win98 on D: and been unable to do so. If I were still using Win98 I'd be real interested in what caused the problem & how I could 'cause' it when I wanted to.

    Appreciate you sharing your experience. Thanks.

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    What I usually do is to start with a fresh install on the new, blank drive as master. The existing drive is re-jumpered to be the slave. After installation of the OS and base applications, I can work on transferring over all the data and settings from the old drive at my liesure. This saves me the "backup all your data step." Makes me feel better, because I _always_ forget something.

    After that, I wipe the old drive and use it to hold the windows swap files, and the backup.

    I do like AlanMiller's paritioning scheme too. I may follow his lead next time I get the idea to go and reorganize my hard drive.

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    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    Jim:

    Thanks for the input. I won't get to this until the weekend, but your comments have been printed for reference.
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    Bravo. Deserving of a StarPost?

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    I'm sure there's a benefit to splitting the drive into little slices, but there's always the risk that C will be too small, given the way Windows stashes updates and other stuff in various hidden folders. You might simply make it all one big C drive (under 128GB, this is supported by Windows XP SP1 without modifications; over 128GB an updated to ATAPI.SYS - or exe or something - is needed).

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    I was worried about this myself at first - even using tiny ol' 98SE and dedicating 10GB to it plus Office. I decided though that using Partition Magic, which allows for non-destructive resizing of partitions, I was pretty safe in this area. It certainly would have been a bigger concern had I had only FDISK or other destructive partitioning programs at my disposal.

    Alan

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    Hi Jim
    <hr>I wipe the old drive and use it to hold the windows swap files, and the backup. <hr>That brings up some interesting points. I used to adopt this approach as "obviously" the best choice a few years back, until one of our techs pointed out a couple of things:

    1) HD speeds have leaped dramatically in recent years, so the perceived advantages of having the swap file running to a dedicated (physical) HD might be offset by the inherently slower speed of the old HD. I've opted for the advantages of a swapfile on a dedicated partition, but on the faster new primary HD.

    2) It's even possible that the very presence of the old "slow" HD on the same IDE might slow down everything, including the speedy new HD. For instance, plugging an "old" 40 pin HD into a "new" 80-wire cable might slow everything up on that IDE. Mind you, I use this config and I'm quite happy with it - I'm not prepared to junk a perfectly good HD, and lose the advantage of a (hot swap) slave without significant monetary compensation <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>.

    Alan

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    <P ID="edit" class=small>(Edited by AlanMiller on 15-Sep-04 13:13. Added extra info, minor corrections, tidied up a bit :-))</P>Hi Bryan

    I had a very similar issue myself, but with "old" 10GB and new 60GB with Win98SE. I followed some very good tips here in the forum and came up with a highly satisfactory solution. A couple of points generally:

    o Your new HD will probably be considerably faster than the old one, so would probably be best as master.
    o The usual config is to have both HDs on one IDE cable, with the other IDE for CD, DVD etc.
    o The WD is a "quirky" brand in my experience, and will want to be master regardless. There are also jumper settings, peculiar to WD to attend to.

    The way I did it was to (ultimately) use the small slave as a backup for important stuff. This might be insufficient for your own requirements though. I've also found it of value to put the slave in a removable caddy, just as an added convenience.

    Probably the best advice I followed was to get hold of Partition Magic, and partition the new drive in accordance with my own needs and to the benefit of the O/S. I'm not sure of the XP issues, nor with NTFS, but my partitions look roughly like this:

    C: Windows and Office plus anything that absolutely insists on using C:
    D: My old HD
    E: My Documents (easy to back up this whole partition)
    F: Data - a variety of downloads, volume for CD burning, ...
    G: Dedicated purely for the Windows swap file - avoids problems of mixing this up with other files/ folders
    H: Scratch - dedicated to anything temporary in nature - temp files, internet cache, %temp% etc.
    Dead easy to blow the whole <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> lot away if/ when desired.
    I: Program Files
    J: Copy of old HD (same size)

    To effect all the changes, I used TweakUI to change the locations appropriately, of Window's "Special Folders". On 98 these are:
    o Common Program Files
    o Desktop
    o Document Templates
    o Favorites *E:
    o My Documents *E:
    o Program Files *I:
    o Programs
    o Recent Documents *H:
    o Send To
    o Start Menu
    o Startup

    I only changed those with a *, in accordance with my "functional" partitions. I don't think this is an exact science <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> but there are a few minor gotchas to watch for.

    The sequence I followed was:

    o Clean install of Windows onto new C:
    The <img src=/S/free.gif border=0 alt=free width=30 height=15> Ultimate Boot Disk or similar might be useful here.

    o Install Partition Magic and set up desired partitions etc. as above.
    Planning Your Partitions has some very good information, as does Drive Partitioning.

    o Use the <img src=/S/free.gif border=0 alt=free width=30 height=15> XXCopy program to mirror the old HD onto J: (in my case).
    The old HD is then available for backup of "important" partitions on new C:
    I used J: as a reference for fresh program installs, copying old settings and of course as the repository of my own work, which would gradually be migrated to other appropriate locations. Ultimately J: can disappear.

    Then the laborious (but strangely satisfying) reinstallation of desired programs. That's just the rough idea, devoid of gory details, but it might give some ideas. Post back if you want further details on anything I mentioned.

    Enjoy!

    Alan

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    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    Jefferson:

    Thanks also to you for your input. Boy, I sure hope some of you guys are around this weekend (paranoia mounting)
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    <P ID="edit" class=small>(Edited by bfxtrfcmgr on 15-Sep-04 06:26. Added Backup/Restore procedure attachment)</P>Alan:

    I just read some of your replies to other posts in this thread (good reason to check an active thread even if you don't get a direct reply) and wonder if maybe I might be better off just installing the 120GB and forgetting about the 20GB (at least for now). I don't know enough about partitioning to appreciate what real benefits there are, or even if that is something I could address later. In any case, and after having read through some of the documentation on Ghost for REV, I wonder if I might simply do a System Backup to my REV drive (bootable) and restore to the new HD. In that case I would completely remove the old HD (5400rpm) and just have the new HD (7200rpm) as master. I "presume" I could add the old HD back as slave on the primary channel at a later date. What I really don't get is the out-of-box "format" of the new HD. My current drive is using NTFS file system so, I again presume, the System Backup REV disk is in that format also. When Ghost promises that a mirror image of the old drive is restored; do they only mean to the drive that the image was taken from, or to a new drive as well? It seems the latter is true, but I'm not learned enough to know for certain.

    My greatest concern is that I be able to accomplish this over the weekend without "incident". This machine runs my entire business; so if I'm not up and running Monday morning I'm out of business (thus the current pesky paranoia).
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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    Re: Add Hard Drive

    I don't see any problem with your (understandably conservative) approach. As I said, I know nothing of XP and NTFS issues. But generally, so long as you don't wipe your existing HD, you're still in business, so to speak. Even if there's a great string of foulups over the weekend, you can still reconnect your old HD to the IDE cable and you're back where you started. I wouldn't even physically remove the old HD - just pull the IDE cable out.

    Did your HD come with a CD of disk utilities? It might be worth checking these to see what they can do for you e.g. format to NTFS. It may also carry non-destructive partitioning software. What I would do is to make a boot floppy from your existing installation (if you can with XP?) and ensure that it carries the appropriate version of FDISK and FORMAT to do the job you need, and provides CD reader functionality. The Ultimate Boot Disk I mentioned earlier is also worth downloading and imaging to floppy. Then make sure they actually boot <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>. It might also be worth printing out any instructions etc. you might need to use them.

    With regard to partitioning, this can all be done further down the track. The Partition Magic software I recommended (and there may be a similar utility that comes with your new HD software) is a Windows program anyway, so you still need to start with Windows loaded on one big C: partition. I'd regard partitioning as a refinement, but it becomes harder if you want to move installed programs, say, to a new partition. The longer you leave it, the more problematic a task it could become.

    I know it seems "scarey" the first time you do it, but so long as your original HD stays intact, you should be laughing! <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>

    Alan

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