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  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    PartitionMagic help

    Well, I finally managed to get my new HD installed but now I'm just a bit confused as to "swapping" positions with the old one. Thanks to Big Al, I was able to get this far though (with much gratitude). My Computer looks like:

    A:Flopppy
    C:Local Disk (the old drive 20GB 5400rpm) Master
    D:REV 35 (removable HD)
    E:CD/RW
    F:USB HD (USB 80GB external HD)
    G:NEW HD (the new drive 120GB 7200rpm) Slave

    All the old "stuff" is still on C: with G: being formatted, but not patitioned yet. I want to do a fresh install of WinXP on G (and somehow make it C) and then use the old drive (currently C) as a store. I don't get how to do the swap! It seems like the OS needs to be on both drives at some point.

    <img src=/S/help.gif border=0 alt=help width=23 height=15>
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    <hr>...old "stuff" is still on C: with G: being formatted, but not patitioned...<snip>...want to do a fresh install of WinXP on G and make it C)<hr>
    OK, lemme see if I understand one important thing about "where you are right now." Does your list mean that C: Master AND G: Slave are connected to the motherboard on the same (1st) IDE chain? If that's the case, and the machine is now in running condition, I would first use PM to setup the number and size partitions you want on the new G: drive. Then, as I see it, you would shutdown and change the jumpers so that the current G: drive is MASTER on the #1 IDE chain and the current C: drive is SLAVE on the #1 IDE chain. It will help during all of this if you memorize or write down the LABEL embedded on each drive when you formatted them, 'cause during this step they are going to change letters! If there are no labels currently, go ahead and do that while Windows is still running. After shutting down and re-jumpering, you would BOOT the machine anew with your WinXP CD (since you said you want a fresh copy of XP) and install the OS on the "new" drive - it should be the master on the first IDE chain.

    Now I truly don't believe that the current "connections" are what I stated, because of your list. I think that your D: Rev 35 is Master on the #2 IDE chain, the E: CD-RW is Slave on the #1 chain, and the new G: drive is slave on the #2 chain (thinking all this because of the way the OS normally assigns drive letters). If THIS paragraph is true, when you shutdown to do the jumpering changes, you'll have to physically swap the drives so that the new drive is master on the #1 chain (usually called Primary on the motherboard) and the old (current C <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> drive becomes slave on the #2 chain (usually called Secondary on the motherboard).

    Whew, if any of this makes sense, I'll be happy. After it's all said and done and the new drive is loaded with a fresh copy of XP, AND you're re-installed PM, you could then change drive letters around, but I wouldn't think that should be necessary. Just be careful when you do the fresh install of XP that it chooses the CORRECT drive and doesn't try to install on the physical drive where your old copy already resides.

    Edited to add: Don't forget my precaution in the other thread, i.e.
    <hr>...One thing you MAY have to do is to use PM to make the boot partition on the new drive "ACTIVE."... <hr>

  3. #3
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    Thank GOD you're hanging out today!! (at least for now)

    PRIMARY CHANNEL
    C: Old drive (20MB; 5400rpm) Master
    G: New Drive (120MB; 7200rpm) Slave

    SECONDARY CHANNEL
    D: REV 35 (removable HD) Master
    E: CD/RW Slave

    Sorry for being such a dolt, but I'm a complete novice at this. I was reading some of your other comments (as well as others) in some other posts, and it seems to me that I'm screwing up here. From what I gather, if both HD are on the same channel (Primary) they both run at the speed of the slower drive. I don't see that I have a choice in that because in my "case" the HD slots are at right angles to the other drive slots and there's no way the cables would reach if I tried to connect a HD with say the CD/RW. If that is the case, then I guess I won't gain anything by having a new OS install on the new HD. Is that right?
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  4. #4
    Plutonium Lounger
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    I gotta tell ya, Bryan, that I don't really know if that speed stuff is correct or not, mostly because I don't know if I could "tell" the difference in a drive spinning at 5400 or 7200 rpm. Then too, the fact that the new one is Ultra ATA and the old one not so, it might prove faster even if connected on the same chain as the older drive. I guess the bottom line at this point is whether your CURRENT copy of XP is "functioning" well enough to continue on. If it IS, you could stop right here and just use PM to break up the new drive into partitions (or NOT!) and let it go at that.

    Looks like YA DONE GOOD, so far! (except that I just know you meant GB and not MB in the previous post) <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Hey Bryan! Not as bad as you thought, ha? A query or 2:
    Do you have Partition Magic installed yet?
    Is the new big drive formatted (I guess it is)?

    To move documents across, I'd make a temp folder, say "OldDocs" on the new HD and transfer them to that. I guess you have full backup too. If this gives you enough space for the time being on your old HD, then well and good. Other "loose" files can be similarly moved to make room. At this stage, use non-system folder names for the new destinations. Maybe prefix the folder name with an underscore "_" or something.

    Be aware though, that once Windows is installed on the new HD, and runs from there, you'll probably have to install your programs on the new HD too. Moving them won't cut it, since many programs need registry entries and other settings to be written during installation.

    I'll be here a while if I can help.

    Alan

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    Plutonium Lounger
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    The attached screenshot shows you a starting point for changing the location of "special" folders. Please note the Tweakui suggestion (which I've never tried) to just right-drag the folder. If you DO click to change you'll get a warning that it's "dangerous." Up to you.

    My personal preference is NOT to monkey with the OS ! On my D: drive I have a folder called Data Store and that folder has sub-folders for Quicken, Mocrosoft, Corel, etc. where I keep data files created by me. I just set the default storage location in the individual applications to that folder, rather than messing with the OS. On MY machine the My Documents folder is essentially empty, except for the installed sample files. So, if you were to choose MY method, just create the structure you need on the new drive, and drag the files and SUB-FOLDERS from the current My Documents folder structure. You can (and I do) do the same thing with pictures, graphics and anything else that you want to put on the new drive. Just create a structure, set the default in the appropriate application, right-drag the files over and leave the OS alone (less risk, I think).
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al (and Bryan)

    I really ought to clarify the content of my initial post on this topic re: partitioning and TweakUI. First up, these are both entirely optional refinements. I described how I used both to my advantage, knowing how I personally wanted things organised for me. For instance, I moved My Documents to a partition that also contains ALL of my own files - things that can't be replaced - for the purpose of easy "special" backup. Similarly, I lumped all folders of a temporary nature in another partition, for easy deletion/ cleanup.

    Second, a word of warning here. If you change the location of Program Files after installing something, you'll end up with a problem. So unless you're properly prepared for it, I'd avoid that one.

    I think you've summed it up Al, with your preference for a folder structure. How you refine things all depends on the way you like to work on a PERSONAL basis. Mine was but one possibility.

    Alan

  8. #8
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Alan:

    Thanks for the reply.
    (Big Al, you might want to take note of this update)

    I was thinking that now (seeing as things are sort of working) would be a good time to do a FULL system back-up. That will take about 20 minutes. I also just noticed that I screwed myself into a corner. Trying not to bore you, here's what happened:

    If you remember from my previous post, PartitionMagic had lost its functionalityand I needed to re-install. Due to the take-over by Symantec, I could not get it re-installed (downloaded version). After three days of messing with DigitalRiver and Symantec support, "we" finally managed to corrupt the file to the point where the original install could not be un-installed. This occurred under the watchful eye of some guy in India, who (after an hour) gave me a link to a "resolution", which was no more than the instructions to install from CD (thanks pal). After my tantrum, I went to the bank and got my system backup and restored everything back to before I got all the "help" from Symantec. I was able to un-install PowerQuest PartitionMagic, and then download the new one from Digital River. Interesting side to this; they refunded my original purchase ($69.95) from back in January and then charged me for an "upgrade" ($49.95) which means I made $20.00 on the deal - go figure (not complaining though).

    I just discovered a serious problem with my data backups though. They were done with Iomega Automatic Backup (REV drive mfg); and the System Backup I restored has none of the backup procedure from that software. I have the full data backup REV disk, but no "restore" procedure in the Iomega software because it thinks I just installed the REV drive. Oh what fun!!

    I'm going to do the full System Backup now, so I'll be gone for a while. But I will be back. Thanks all for hanging in there with me; you guys are great!
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  9. #9
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    Thanks!
    Please see my last post (I was entering it while you were replying)
    I'll be back!
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  10. #10
    Plutonium Lounger
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Like the ol' fella once said: "...whatever floats your boat, mate..." and there isn't a thing wrong with either of our strategies and procedures. The real reason mine is the way it is, because I started on the "user" created storage system back before there was a My Documents in Windows and I've been doing it ever since. Back in those days, I didn't even have MS Office (I was dedicated to WordPerfect and Lotus until IBM started buying Office and forcing.... well, that's another story). I'm sure from what I've seen so far, that Bryan is glad to have heard from both of us.

    I was even such a stubborn pighead that I used to install software apps on the D: drive, in their OWN directories, rather than be coerced by MS to use the Program Files directory. I gave up that fight two and a half years ago when I first installed XP Pro. Some habits die hard!

  11. #11
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    Well, this is rather disturbing. The My Documents backup is either corrupt, or something happened during/after the System Restore; it cannot restore the data backup from the REV drive. The truly sad thing is that that is where my Access db resides (my business application). It's not as if the entire app. is gone (restored from SYSBU), but I've got about a weeks worth of data entry that's missing.

    <img src=/S/bwaaah.gif border=0 alt=bwaaah width=123 height=15> <img src=/S/blowup.gif border=0 alt=blowup width=60 height=60>

    So, that being the case, I guess I'll have to suspend the other issues until I can get everything back in the db (so when Monday morning rolls around, I'm not totally screwed up. Many thanks to you and Alan, I couldn't have made it this far without you guys. Back to the grind stone. . .
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  12. #12
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    Whew! I finally got all my last weeks data re-entered into the db and everything is now current on the original drive (and I'm now out of coffee). I have done an entire SysBU using my REV drive, so (hopefully), if I screw up again, I'll be able to recover using Ghost for REV.

    Looking at PartitionMagic I noticed something that seems a bit odd (but what do I know). Drive 1 (the old 20GB) has (of course) partition C: (19,085.00MB), but there is a 7.8MB section at the end of that drive that is unallocated (see pic). Drive 2 (the new 120GB) has partition G: , but I must have done something wrong here because it shows G as contained in an extended partition (I don't know how I did that), it also has an unallocated partition (7.8MB), but at the beginning of the drive.

    1. <LI>I want to copy everything (including OS) over to the new 120GB (now G: ) so it must be bootable.
      <LI>I want to "convert" the old drive to a general storage drive (now C: )
      <LI>WD has a utility to copy the drive, but it says nothing about whether it makes it bootable
      <LI>After everything is copied to the new drive, I "presume" I would shut down and swap the drive positions on the cable and re-set the jumpers (Master/Slave)
      <LI>At re-boot, will the system be confused as to which drive to boot from? I don't believe the WD utility lets you do anything to the old drive until after re-boot.
      <LI>And finally, is there something wrong with the partitioning of G? How do I fix it?
    Still struggling with the whole concept. . .
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  13. #13
    Plutonium Lounger
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    I don't know if you've been waiting to hear from me and I apologize - I've been away for several hours. The first thing I'd say is to stay away from the WD utilities since those kinds of apps are prone to leave something to be desired. Besides, you already have the tools you need in PM and Ghost! Additionally, one of the reasons I'm in the process of switching away from PM is that it sometimes burps when the queue of pending changes contains several items. If I were you, I'd make one or two changes, as follows, apply those changes and then make a couple more.

    That unallocated space problem happens occasionally, I think in my case it's sometimes a problem with FDISK, but it can be fixed with PM. Firstly, on the old drive you should be able to "resize" the drive and use PM's dragger to expand the partition to the right to take in the unallocated space. Apply those changes. On the new drive, I think it's a two-step process of first "moving" the unallocated space to the right (or "moving" the allocated space to the LEFT). Then you can "resize" the partition with the dragger the same way as the previous step. The major criterion here is to get the unallocated space on the RIGHT! Apply those changes. What I think you need to do then, on the new drive, is make the partition "active" and get rid of the extended partition designation. I've never had to do that with PM so I don't know where it is in their menu structure.

    Now, I think we'll be back to my earlier post. You need to make a good, full drive, Ghost backup of the current boot drive. I don't know if you can do that onto the Iomega drive OR your USB external drive. If you can do that, then shutdown and do the re-jumpering from my earlier post, you can use that backup image to put the contents onto the new, larger drive. Doing that should copy the boot sector and everything else to the larger drive and by virtue of the re-jumpering the drive should be bootable - I hope and pray!

  14. #14
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    No, I wasn't waiting on you specifically; however, it was just my good fortune that you happened to be the one who replied (although "I hope and pray!" leaves room for pause <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>)

    The REV drive (35GB) has ample room for everything from the old drive (and is even compressible to 90GB!), so I shouldn't have a problem there. I just returned from lunch, so I'll get busy with your advice right now. Thanks a bunch for the help, and the indomitable patience!
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

  15. #15
    5 Star Lounger bfxtrfcmgr's Avatar
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    Re: PartitionMagic help

    Al:

    Thank God you know what I mean, rather than what I say (Gig, Meg, whatever) <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>

    The old OS is working, but I only have about 10% free space on that drive; defrag is going to go belly-up on me pretty soon (already very slow). Considering my lack of knowledge, perhaps I should just partition the new drive and move some of the files over to it. The thing is, I don't know how to do that (say My Documents, program files) without raising havoc with the OS finding them. I did do as you suggested and installed TweakUI, but it's all Greek to me. You've been so generous that I hate to even ask, but you wouldn't happen to have time to do some step-by-step hand-holding would you?
    Bryan,
    Not the smartest critter on the glacier. . .
    . . .but I'm persistent (does that count?)

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