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  1. #1
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    Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appear in

    (Edited by HansV to make URL clickable - see <!help=19>Help 19<!/help>)

    Hi, I am confused how to best do heading number in my thesis. I have devided my thesis into chapters, each of which is a separate document. I then insert each of the chapters into a master document as a subdocument. However, the problem is that all the heading numberings are lost because "The style in the master document has priority over the same-name style in the subdocument." (from <!mskb=212065>Microsoft Knowledge Base Article 212065<!/mskb>). "To work around this problem, apply heading numbering for subdocuments from within the master document". But this is an enormous duplication of effort... I basically have to manually go through the master document, clicking each heading in the text one by one and clicking the corresponding heading format from the toolbar on the right. I don't want to redo this everytime I make the master document. I know I am going to screw up. Is there a better way?
    Thanks,
    Alex

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appear in

    You should be able to create an empty master document with numbering set up for the heading styles the way you want it. When you want to assemble the subdocuments, make a copy of this empty master document, and insert the subdocuments into it. The headings in the subdocuments should automatically take on the numbering defined in the master document.

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    That's very similar to my original setup. Nevertheless, I tried what you suggested and it still doesn't work. What I did is:
    1) New document, save as new template 030705.dot, with specific numberings for Headings 1, 2 and 3 (1, 1.1, 1.1.1, i.e.)
    2) New document based on 030705.dot template. double check heading numbers work as set up - yes. Save as test.doc,
    3) Open test.doc (or a copy of it). Change to outline mode, click on "Insert subdocument" from outline toolbar. Choose Chapter1.doc
    (Chapter1.doc is built up of headings 1, 2, 3 etc)
    4) Chapter1.doc is inserted but numbering doesn't appear.
    If I place the cursor in different parts of the Chapter1 section, it clearly knows what heading it's using - the formatting is correct, except for the numbering. And the styles and formatting toolpane on the right side shows that the correct heading is highlighted (i.e. "1.1.1 Heading 3") but the text itself is missing the numbering. I can force the text to show the correct numbering by clicking on the formatting on the right and, thus, "applying". But it seems ridiculous to go down the document, line by line "applying" each heading style all over again.
    What am I doing wrong?
    Since I am just starting to write my thesis, I don't mind doing it some other way if it'll work better. Should I try a different approach for setting up and assembling the thesis?
    How do other people write books and theses?

    Thanks, any advice appreciated,
    Alex

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    I wrote my thesis before Microsoft and personal computers existed, so I used a typewriter <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    I never use subdocuments myself, but there are some Loungers who do, they may have useful suggestions. Stuart, are you reading this?

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    I have never heard anyone say positive things about a master document, and I'd strongly suggest avoiding that feature like the plague:
    http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/RecoverMasterDocs.htm

    If you can, just break up the thesis into multiple files and keep them separate. There are ways to adjust the numbering as needed, and inter-file cross references are flaky but quite do-able (and way more stable than master documents). When the time comes to finalize, you can concatenate within Word or into PDF, depending on your needs.

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    Hi Alex

    I'm really puzzled as I have just gone through your steps and it works fine for me. Even if the "Chapter 1" document is based on a template that is different from the master document template, as long as the Chapter 1 headings have the Heading 1 through Heading 3 styles applied then they show up as numbered when inserted into the master document.

    How are you numbering the heading styles in the master doc, i.e. are you using the "Outline Numbered" tab in the numbering scheme?

    Whilst I'm in the "don't use master/sub documents" camp, I fail to see why what you are doing won't work for you when, by following the same steps, it does for me.

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    Hi Ian,

    Thanks for the reply. I am puzzled too. Before your message I had finally managed to get the numbering to work but only by forcing the Master and the subdocs to use the exact same template. But I would like it to work even when the templates don't match - for example, the Headings for Chapter2.doc begin counting at "2" whereas in the Master the headings begin at "1". I am going to try this again. But if it doesn't work at least now I know there is a way to force the numbering to appear correctly on the Master document (by forcing everybody to have the exact same template).

    And, yes, both you and Andrew are right - relying on a "Master" is a recipe for disaster. I have been frequently forwarned to backup constantly, and I will work until nearly the very end on the individual Chapters as separate documents. I just wanted to make sure I started them out in a way that later on allows me to use the Master Document to easily generate a TOC and Figure Listing. Ultimately, I was actually more worried about inserting Figures. That will be tomorrow's assignment - understanding exactly what goes on when a Figure is inserted (i.e. where does the Figure actually reside so I can back it up, etc). Does someone have a good description of how to insert figuresand to keep them safe?

    Thanks for all the help,
    Alex

  8. #8
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    Problem fixed

    Hmm, ok, everything works as planned now. I suspect I wasn't being careful with the updating/editing of the basal template. Valuable lesson learned - know how to use "ToolsTemplates and Add-ins" as well as "Modify Style, Add to Template" backwards and forwards. Consequences are not exactly intuitive. I needed to either (1) use the exact same template for Master and subdocuments (including the often dangerous "Automatic Update Document Styles") or (2) keep a different template for Master and subdocument. I was working somewhere in between (1) and (2) with very confusing and hard to predict consequences... Now I need to decide whether to proceed with option (1) or (2) (advantages and disadvantages to both).

    Thanks,
    Alex

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    There are three different ways to insert a figure, visible by pressing the drop down arrow on the "Insert" button in the Insert Picture dialog.
    <UL><LI>Insert -- this embeds the image in the document itself, and is the default. This can significantly increase file size, and can make it hard to update your images easily
    <LI>Link to File -- this inserts only a reference to the figure into the document. This is the most common way of working with figures in most professional publishing environments (Quark, InDesign, FrameMaker). The document size does not unduly grow, and if you need to modify/update a figure, it's a snap (choose Edit->Links to manage imported figures)/
    <LI>Insert and Link -- this is a combination of the other two. The figure is embedded, but also maintains an external references so it can be more easily modified. This is particularly useful if you'll need to send the document to someone else to review, and want to make sure they'll be able to view the images, but still want to update the images easily[/list]If you want to keep the file size down, and make it easy to back up and update your figures, I'd suggest using the Link to File method. If you'd like, later on I'll dig up and post a macro that intercepts the appropriate command, and forces a Link to File, so you don't have to manually choose that option every time.

  10. #10
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    Re: Problem fixed

    Master / Sub documents are fragile things. You need to be very careful if you want to use them. One of the unwritten "rules" is to use exactly the same template for the master and all sub documents. See <post#=145685>post 145685</post#> for more.

    I only recommend use of master/sub when there is a very significant benefit from doing so, and you haven't yet explained what this is in your case. Why not simply create one large document? Or if you need to have separate documents for editing why not simply copy and paste the individual document contents to the master at the very end when everything else is done.

    StuartR

  11. #11
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    Re: Problem fixed

    Hi Stuart,

    The protocol explained in post 145685 sounds more or less like what I was planning. I would definetely only use the Master at the very last stage. I just wanted to make sure that I started my individual chapters in such a way that I could easily combine them later on to make a TOC and Figure Index/List, by whatever means possible. If copy and paste works then so be it. However, as I am not an expert on the use of styles/templates I worry/ied about the relationship between the various individual Chapter documents and template(s). And I had a good reason to worry, since my original setup had problems - b/c the master and subdocuments were sharing a single template, but I was making changes to the same template within individual subdocuments, woefully confusing the master. The problem is simply fixed by dividing the original template into two identical, but separate templates - one is Master.dot and the other is Chapters.dot. I simply load up a new chapter using Chapters.dot and change the heading numberings accordingly. This will work fine, of course, unless I start altering styles/format in individual files as these would not propagate back to the master template. So, I'll just have to remember that point, an important lesson, and not make style/format changes.
    But that brings me to another question; this one is a newbie question - what happens to Chapters.dot template if I move my thesis folder from one computer to another? Does the template travel along? Where does it end up in the destination computer?

    Thanks,
    Alex.

  12. #12
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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    Hi Andrew,

    Thanks for the advice on Figures. I am confused though. In Word 2002, I don't see the "Link to File" and "Insert and Link" options that you mention...

    -Alex

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    As I mentioned in the original post, you have to click the drop-down arrow next to the word Insert (see attached).
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    Ah, excellent. I see. Well hidden! Are the "links to File" relative or absolute paths?

    Also, I started a new thread on recommendations for Insert Figures to collect opinions/caveats on their use in long documents. Your advice is already part of it. Thanks,
    Alex

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    Re: Subdocument's Heading Numbering Does Not Appea

    In my experience, they're relative when they're in the same folder as the document, and absolute otherwise. There's been a lot of discussion about relative/absolute links, and there may be more to the story than that.

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