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  1. #1
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    File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    Hi All,

    Yesterday, I was backing up some files/folders from my hard disk onto a CD, using Roxio Classic. During the first step, where you tell Roxio what files you want burned, it complained about many of the file names, the complaints falling into 3 categories:
    1. invalid file name for operating system: this seemed to occur when I had a semi-colon in the name. Roxio offered to change this to an underscore, which I accepted. I don't recall other characters.

    2. file name too long: it offered to truncate, preserving the file extension. This was a little trickier. For example, if I had saved a web page in its entirety (not just the text but all the files), it would offer to truncate the folder containing the files so that it would suggest something like "..._fil" w/o the final "es" in the original name. The problem with this is the corresponding .htm file was probably saved with its name intact or the "files" problem would come up AFTER Roxio passed the .htm file so I couldn't get the pair to have the same name. Another case where this would arise is where I saved a web page resulting from some query; the file name would contain all the query parameters of the URL so it would be quite long. In this case, I usually had no idea what to rename the file.

    3. It complained about too many levels of folders (>8).

    I looked in Computer Management and saw that the file system for a CD is something called CDFS ("Compact Disk File System"?). A search of Help turned up a few MSKB articles that referred to various levels of support for Win NT 3.51 vs Win NT 4. Problems 2 and 3 above seemed to be addressed but it wasn't clear that these were Win NT 3.51 problems or that they persisted into later Win versions - particularly XP (which I know has a code base from some version of NT).

    So the questions:
    1. Are the problems above specific to Roxio or do all CD burning pgms have these issues? I presume this is not a Roxio problem based on the MSKB articles.
    2. Is there a way around the problems? For example, is it possible to have CDs use NTFS, which presumably is tolerant of the above? I know I could just use a drive imaging program to back up the entire disk where these files are but that's a solution that I don't consider applicable here.
    3. Are there some things one can do before getting into Roxio (or other burning pgm) to make all the file names "CDFS" save? I am thinking of going into the hard disk and checking all the names one by one. I believe I can use some of the "renaming pgms" to enmasse change all the names with semi-colons in them (change ; to probably ,) but are there other characters that CDFS doesn't like? What about the other issues like the file names that contain the query parameters as part of the URL?

    I also searched the archives here and didn't see anything for CDFS.

    TIA

    Fred

  2. #2
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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    You can read some brief comments about Microsoft's implementation of the Compact Disk File System, wherein some of your questions are answered. But for full details you would have to look up the base standard ISO 9660, plus the Joliet extensions.

    A CD uses CDFS. Full stop (or Period, if you prefer!). No FATs or NTFS. So there are limitations (see above).

    I haven't come across a program which can go through your hard disk and point out which folder names/file names would be objected to if attempts were made to copy them to CD -- maybe Roxio has a Test Filenames option? Or perhaps someone knows of one...

    John
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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    Hi John,

    Thks. I'll take a look at the link to the extent it describes the MS implementation and check the ISO std and Joliet extensions (if I can find them - do you have a link?). If MS is not in compliance with them, then all that matters is what MS did in implementing CDFS.

    It seems to me that it would not be difficult to build a pgm that at least examined your file structure for the 3 problems I ran into (unacceptable characters, name too long, folder structure >8). Obviously it's built into Roxio since it flagged these and gave me an alternative (at least for the 1st 2 problems). But I can use the batch renaming programs (don't recall any off hand but I do have one on the other PC) to get around the 1st problem.

    Fred

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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    John,

    I just took a look at the MS link you sent (didn't think I'd get to it this quickly). At least one of my problems (folder structure >8) is supposedly handled by Win XP Prof SP2, which is what's running on the other PC (the one I'm on now is XP Home - not sure why there's a diff in implementations of CDFS).

    Therefore, it would seem that the culprit might be Roxio or a CD driver?

    Also, the MS web site said its CDFS implementation could support file and folder names of up to 64 unicode chars. While I won't swear to it, I would not think that many of my file names (other than the ones that were created based on query parameters in the URL) would be >32, let alone >64. Yet I recall a lot of msgs on this problem. Might again suggest Roxio or the CD driver.

    The only unaddressed issue is that of valid characters.

    Thanks again.

    Fred

    PS. I usually say Period but have been exposed to "Full Stop" when working with my UK colleagues in ISO. But don't blame us for 9660; we were on the telecom side.

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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    I believe that there is also a file path name limit of 150 characters, includes the file extension. So count those LONNNNNNG folder names.

    The 64 limit is to the name only, does not include the path, but with the above path file name limit, it can happen real quick.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    Dave,

    I'm assuming the 150 path limit is a CDFS limit, not the 256 I thought we had with FAT/FAT32/NTFS. Even with 256 (which I thought was a path limit), you can't get many levels deep using long file names if your folders also have long names.

    Thks.

    Fred

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    Re: File System for CDs (Win XP Home)

    That is right, the file name limits include the path. The 150 is for CD's and the 256 is for Windows.

    Also note, that if you are using network drives the "ServerName" may be included in the Windows limit.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

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