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  1. #1
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    move para up/down (2003)

    Hi All,

    I often use the ALT+SHIFT+arrow (up or down) to move selected para(s) up or down. I've noticed in some documents I've been working on that the shortcut seems to "mess up" the document structure. For example, with the cursor in a para (or the entire para selected), pressing the shortcut key moves the para AND paras that follow in the section (even tho they're not selected) up to the top of the section. I've been able to repeat this. But sometimes the shortcut key works as it's supposed to although not often. I also tried this on a brand new doc with just 3 paras (with =rand) and it worked fine (I colored some text so I could distinguish paras).

    I've also tried ALT+SHIFT+arrow within a 3-row table. Tried moving the 2nd row up. The result was that the table got broken apart, with 2 rows moving up some number of paras and the 3rd being left behind. Very weird.

    Is this a new 2003 feature? I don't believe I had this problem with previous versions of Word.

    (The doc is about 300K so can't post in entirety. If useful, I might be able to cut it down to a few pages.)

    TIA

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Are you sure that there were paragraph breaks, not manual line breaks?
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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Hans,

    Thks for the quick reply.

    These are para breaks, NOT manual breaks. Also, I don't think that issue would explain the messed up table that I also described.

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    This newsgroup thread mentions a similar problem, but no solution...

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Thanks Hans for the pointer. I tried the soln of changing to outline view and back before using the ALT+SHIFT+arrow: did NOT work.

    BTW, I should have mentioned that I have 2003 SP0. I know there are SP's available since but don't know if this item was fixed.

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    The documents that showed the problem always seemed to have tables. Do yours, too?

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Hi Klaus,

    Yes but...

    In my original post, I described 2 experiments:
    - 3 paras generated by =rand() and with NO tables
    - 3 paras per above plus a 3-row table.

    Both had problems.

    In the document that I've been working on where I've first noticed the problem with Word 2003, the doc is 300KB+ long, had 4 sections (I've subsequently added 2 more sections), was about 83 pages long when it was 4 sections and 88 pages with 6 sections, and had one table at the VERY END of the document (literally the last thing other than the last para mark) as a signature block. This is where I first noticed the problem when working on this doc (for the last 3 months).

    I also noticed a pattern: the main section is about 77 pages long (the other sections are a cover sheet, TOC, TOA). To see what happens, I put the cursor in the 3rd para (a para of text) of the main section and tried moving it up. The preceding 2 paras are another para of text and a Heading 1 ("Introduction"), which is the first para of the section. The Introduction is about 7 pages long until there is a page break (not a section break). This is "significant" per the following. When using the A+S+arrow:
    - the 3rd para and a bunch of following paras almost to the page break get moved to the beginning of the section.
    - the Heading 1 para and the first para of text get moved near the end of the 7 pages - "near" meaning that what were the last 3 paras before the page break are still the last 3 paras with the Heading 1 and what was the 2nd para of the section (the body text) just above those 3.

    Put another way, the net result of trying to move the 3rd para up via A+S+up is that the first 2 paras of the section (Heading 1 and body text) get moved to before the 3rd from last para before the page break.

    This is repeatable.

    I also selected the 5th para to move up. Same kind of result. The first 4 paras got moved to be near the page break - ending up above the same last 3 paras.

    Now just to try something else: I played with the cover page. It is 1 page long ended by a next-pg section break, has a 4-line title (each line its own para) and an "identification" block of 4 or 5 lines, each its own para. A+S+arrow works fine here!?!?!

    If you can figure out the problem and solution in all this, you're a better man than me (I've taken to cut-and-paste of what I want to move). Even if you can't, you're still a better man.

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Hi Fred,

    I don't have a ten-foot pole handy to prod the last sentence and check if it's harmless.
    Offhand I can't think of any definition of "man" for which it's likely to evaluate to vbTrue <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    Perhaps you can post a sample? I haven't seen the bug again, in a long time, although I use OutlineMoveUp/OutlineMoveDown daily.
    Maybe the issue was fixed, or else the sample doc might give some clue.

    When I ran into the bug, I didn't look as carefully as you did. I only remember the selection suddenly changed in a weird way, and the text was messed up badly.
    And it seemed to happen only if tables were in the doc: When I got rid of the tables, everything seemed to be back to normal (IIRC).

    Since then, I haven't been able to reproduce it (... but didn't invest a lot of time).

    The only issue I sometimes have with Alt+Shift+Up/Down is that you can't move text "through" a table (as you can move table rows through regular text):
    The paragraphs you move end up inside the table. But that's an old issue, I think.

    And the commands don't play very nice with tables that have merged cells.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Klaus,

    attached is a very stripped down version of the document. It also has 3 macros as part of it. I didn't try deleting the module to see if that would help but don't see why it would. 2 of them are pretty much from the macro recorder and the other is one I got from the lounge.

    I tried a little more experimenting. It seems only the cover page works correctly in terms of moving a para up/down via A+S+arrow. Attempts in the other sections results in messed up text.

    Fred
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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    It seems to be caused by some levels being collapsed in outline view:

    If you change to outline view and expand all levels (by clicking on the "+" button), then change back to normal view, OutlineMoveUp/Down work as expected.

    Probably that's a new bug/"feature"?
    (Edited to add: No, Word2000 acts the same way)

    I'm also very surprised that the collapsed/expanded state of branches in the outline is saved with the document.

    It isn't saved when you use the XML format or RTF, though.
    As so often with hidden features, saving in one of these formats would have "fixed" the "corrupt" document.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    Hi Klaus,

    I'm not sure I agree with your analysis of symptoms but I think your conclusion is correct.

    When I opened the document and went to outline view, the "level indicator" was already on "Show All Levels". Clicking on all the plusses did not expand anything in my version of the document. If I then closed the document, I did not get a "Save Changes" message. So I'm not sure about the levels being saved with the document.

    However, once having clicked on all the plusses in outline view, A+S+arrow worked as in the past. Moreover, if I saved the document after using A+S+arrow and reopened it, A+S+arrow also worked.

    So, the bottom line is, is, is, is (as the teacher for whom the paper is for would jokingly say) I think this is solved although I don't understand what was done to fix the problem.

    Also, if the document is "corrupt", how did it get that way? Actually, it was just the main section with the Heading 1 and Heading 2 that was "corrupt"; other sections seemed to work. Is it possible that my use of Heading 2's with references to bookmarked text on the first page did it? I'm sure we can speculate.

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    I meant to select everything, then click on the + button on the outline tool bar. That should expand all collapsed headings.

    And I don't think the doc is/was corrupt at all. It just seemed that way because the collapsed heading levels made it act strangely.

    About the same way that some exotic compatibility settings, or Far East formatting settings can make Word act weird, and the usual advice is to delete the "corrupt" Normal.dot -- which promptly fixes things, and makes us think the diagnosis must have been correct, too.
    Which I doubt is the case 99% of the time <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    OK. I tried the + on the outline toolbar ("Expand") and that worked in terms of solving the problem. Of course, it didn't expand anything since Show All Levels is on when you enter Outline mode and I didn't see any expansion anyway.

    But thanks again.

    Fred

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    Re: move para up/down (2003)

    "Show all levels" is only the default setting: Some levels were collapsed "manually".
    As said, it's surprising that these collapsed levels are saved.

    That the collapsed levels influence things even in views other than Outline view is a buggy design IMO:
    If you don't see what is collapsed and what isn't, it should not influence OutlineMoveUp/Down. And those two commands are so useful in other views that this should be fixed.

    <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16> Klaus

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