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  1. #1
    Uranium Lounger
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    Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Just a warning to all who are upgrading their Norton AV software. I am dealing with an unpleasant upgrade experience that I hope to help others avoid. In renewing my AV subscription, I chose to upgrade from Norton AV 2003 to Norton AV 2005 and ordered the disk from Symantec. When it arrived my subscription had expired two days previous so I began the installation. The install instructions said that if you are running 2003 or later you could leave the installation in place and transfer the setting to the new installation. I did this and all seemed to go well until the installation completed and ran Live Update. There was aproblem installing one of the updates, but rerunning Live Update "fixed" the problem and the update installed. Then I began finding problems. My email (Outlook Express) would not work. I couldn't send or receive and got the error from Symantec Symantec User Session has encountered a problem and needs to close ... I searched the Symantec site and found no solutions to this issue and deceided to uninstall the program and start over. Going to Add/Remove Programs I found that AV 2003 had not been completely removed and that the "Remove" option had been eliminated from the choices (Change or Remove) and clicking change started an install routine that quit with a Fatal Error message. I removed 2005 and attempted to get 2003 out by reinstalling and then uninstalling. Didn't work !!! I now have 2 instances of AV 2003 that will not uninstall and attempting to reinstall 2005 only caused more trouble, in that the installation will not complete and there is no way to remove the incomplete installation (it doesnt appear in Add/Remove Programs). I'm dealing with Symantec Email Tech support at the moment and have NO AV protection on my system. My hope is to resolve this and get the system functioning with AV 2005 but I may have to resort to an image backup created just before I began the installation. My reason for posting is to warn others so they can avoid this situation. The instructions with the software say that it is OK to leave the old installation in place, but going to the Symantec site you will find that Symantec recommends that you always remove any and all previous installations befor installing any new AV product. BAD POLICY !!!!! All warnings should be consistent in all places and be designed to protect the user !!! The instructions that come with the software should mirror the instructions on the website. Especially on software that is purchaed directly from the company.
    <img src=/S/rantoff.gif border=0 alt=rantoff width=66 height=37>
    So, a word to the wise.... Uninstall all previous versions of Norton and Symantec products before installing a newer version.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator jscher2000's Avatar
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Symantec provides a downloadable "eraser" program to get rid of the various bits and pieces of NAV and NIS. You can search the Symantec knowledgebase for the EXE file names, or trust these links. <img src=/S/wink.gif border=0 alt=wink width=15 height=15>

    From Document ID:2001092114452606 (Norton AntiVirus 2003 or earlier)
    "Only use Rnav2003.exe when you cannot uninstall Norton AntiVirus 2003 or earlier through Windows Add/Remove Programs."
    <A target="_blank" HREF=ftp://ftp.symantec.com/misc/consumer/Rnav2003.exe>ftp://ftp.symantec.com/misc/consumer/Rnav2003.exe</A>

    From Document ID:2001090510510636 (Norton Internet Security or Personal Firewall 2003 or earlier)
    "Use this utility only if you cannot uninstall through Windows Add/Remove Programs or the Uninstall option from the Start Menu."
    <A target="_blank" HREF=ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/linked_files/nis/RnisUPG.exe>ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_...nis/RnisUPG.exe</A>

    Note to future readers: there are similar utilities available for the 2004 versions but you must go search for them at Symantec.

  3. #3
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Doc,
    Your tale of woe almost mirrors the one I had going from 2003 to 2005 Systemworks. it would appear to install fine ( over 2003 ) but I couldn't get Update to DL all of the latest updates. One of which was the AV definitions.
    Afetr MANY MANY calls to their "tech support" in India or somewhere over there, trying all kinds of "fixes" they suggested, including the ones that Jefferson showed links to, I STILL wasn't running right.
    I even ran the removal tools, deleted every mention of Symantec or Norton, both in the Windows Explorer AND the registry. I have about an inch of paper copies of the Support bulletins from the Symantec site. Tried them all in various configurations. Total frustration!

    The solution was to do as you said you are about to do. Restore an Image to before the attempt to install 2005, and then use the addremove from Windows to remove 2003, and THEN use the remove tools from Syamntec to remove all the leftover scraps. Then searched through Win Explorer to remove any other leftovers in the file folders. There were some.

    After rebooting, I installed 2005 without a hitch and all updates work fine since that. ( Knock Wood )
    BOB
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  4. #4
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Jefferson,

    Thanks for the links. I'd already been there and was even more angry that this is something that Symantec knew about and had tools to "fix" the problem that they created. If the installation instructions had been updated or correctly done in the first place then none of this would have been necessary. I posted just to make others aware of this issue and got so caught up in my rant that I neglected to include the links to the tools which you have so kindly provided. <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>

    Some of the tools can be found here and the instructions to reinstall your software after a failed installation can be found here.
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  5. #5
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Hey Bob,

    That's why I posted this. It infuriated me when I discovered that this is a known issue with their 2005 product and they aren't doing anything to protect their customers from getting into this hell-hole of a mess. And unless you are willing to go with paid phone support you're stuck with email support from India. And from what you say the phone support is no better !!!

    I'm just playing out the string to see what happens and how their support staff handles this. I've requested an answer that resolves this issue, and not some boilerplate response from a manual, or to have the problem escalated to get their senior support staff involved. That was 7 hours ago and I'm still waiting, unprotected, on a DSL connection for an email response to my AV problem. (Is there something wrong with this picture or is it just me ???) <img src=/S/disappointed.gif border=0 alt=disappointed width=15 height=15>
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  6. #6
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Doc,
    Apparently it isn't just a problem with 2005. They also have removal tools for 2001, 2002 & 2003.

    --------------------------------------------------
    to have the problem escalated to get their senior support staff involved
    ---------------------------------------------------

    I went that route also. ( ala Verizon ) finally got a call days later from "Peter" in India, who was supposed to be THE hot shot on the subject. When he started to run me through all the things that I've tried with the lower level people, I told him to forget about it. I'll do it my way. He actually called back a few days later to see how I made out with the problem! I told him fine , no thanks to anyone at that location.
    He asked just HOW did I do it? This is from the hot shot tech guy !

    BTW, If i were you I would DL a freebie AV to use temporarily. You are really leaving yourself wide open for more problems.
    BOB
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  7. #7
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Bob,

    Just got the reply from Symantec about 10 minutes ago.
    <hr>this issue can happen if you have not removed Norton Antivirus (NAV) 2003 completely from your computer before downloading Norton Antivirus 2005 and, installing it.

    The removal tools available on our Support web site are recommended to be used only if uninstallation with Add/Remove programs fails.

    I suggest that you follow these steps to resolve this issue in same order:

    1. Uninstall Norton Antivirus 2003 using the Rnav2003.exe tool
    2. Redownload Norton Antivirus 2005
    3. Prepare your computer
    4. Install Norton Antivirus (NAV) 2005.<hr>
    Certainly no boilerplate response <img src=/S/flee.gif border=0 alt=flee width=25 height=25> But I have to wonder why the site says you should ALWAYS remove previous versions and the install instructions that come with the software say you can leave 2003 & later versions installed and transfer your settings.
    <img src=/S/confused.gif border=0 alt=confused width=15 height=20>
    I'll try their tools and see what happens. Who knows ... maybe they'll work. I already have them DL'd in a folder on my desktop so I'll have at it tonight after dinner or tomorrow AM with a fresh perspective on things. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> I suppose you have to call and start swearing in Hindi to get them to turn you over to a senior staffer <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>.

    I thought about installing AVG, but decided against it since I don't really know if 2003 is really gone and how much of 2005 is involved with my system. Since I'm also experiencing some virtual memory errors (trying to run a shockwave game !!) and some issues with the normal.dot in Word and some documents not opening at all I just felt it might cause more trouble than it's worth. I'm runnin' naked, but without fear !!! Seriously, I'm only comin' here and a couple other regular haunts and am NOT accepting attachments in my emails (I forward those out to one of my online accounts and open them there. <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>) But I appreciate your concern. <img src=/S/yep.gif border=0 alt=yep width=15 height=15> I've always got the image to restore and start over. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
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  8. #8
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Doc,

    You're among the fortunate. Just to remind me of the experience I had with Symantec support, I've got a file on the desktop of a server at work dated January 30, 2002 (YEP 2002) about an installation problem that the support people were getting back to me the next day. After about two weeks I stopped e-mailing them about the issue. Needless to say I've quit holding my breath and will NEVER have anything good to say about them.

    Joe
    Joe

  9. #9
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Doc,
    Yep, Those are about the same response I got from them a number of times. I followed them faithfully and never did get them to work out the problem,

    However, Good luck to you. Maybe it WILL work for you, I hope.

    Reminds me of the last video graphics card I bought. In the manual it said there was a DVI - I to VGA adapter to use if needed. ( enclosed )
    Looked all over.....no adapter. I emailed them asking for the enclosed adapter. The answer was:
    sorry we don't enclose any adapter with the card, you have to purchase it separately!
    BOB
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  10. #10
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: Norton AV 2005 Upgrade Problem

    Bob,
    I took what you said about the removal instructions you got, "I followed them faithfully and never did get them to work out the problem.", and used it to filter the responses from Symantec. After the third reply in which the tech didn't address both the 2003 incomplete removal and the 2005 incomplete installation and I had to go to the website to confirm what I was told and what I really needed to do and then queried the tech about the missing information. The reply was that I was correct and that, of course, I needed to do the step I had provided as well. So I did the only sensible thing and reverted to my image backup and will wait a couple days before attempting to remove 2003 and THEN install 2005. Never again will I upgrade any Symantec product before removing an earlier version and will not begin either process until I have a fresh image backup of my system !! Once bitten, twice shy !!!

    I was gonna try to remove everything related to Symantec and Norton AV from my system and go with AVG but after reading Pilgrim's thread I thought better of it and will leave well enough alone for now. Thanks to you and Joe for your input on this. It was nice knowin' somebody gave a damn. Symantec sure doesn't !!!!!
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