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  1. #1
    Rabbitdad
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    FrontPage Frustrations

    I bought FrontPage 2002, but I have yet to open the box. I'm waiting to see how things look with the product, since I have never been really happy with FP 98. Things don't look too good so far. Glitches and less support than ever before!

    Does anybody know a web-creation product - better than FrontPage - that will take over a Front-Page-created site without messing up the existing page? I am so sick of Micro$oft's arrogance and mediocre performance! This proposed alternative product would accept my PixelMill-created FrontPage theme without altering anything. I only want to update my site; not re-create it.

    I had an earlier question, I'll ask, because Microsoft didn't answer it. It's cut-and-pasted here:
    I have FrontPage 98 and I have created a large web page using this software, with a FrontPage 98 compatible Theme distributed by Pixel Mill. I do not want to compromise the present web page when I go to update it, and I have hesitated to update to a later version of FrontPage because I have never really been happy with FP 98.

    The problem is, my personal FrontPage web server in FP 98 seems to "self-delete" for anomalous reasons - usually as I attempt to fix complications that come up with my ISP connection. I have required a number of tech support calls involving this problem and, presently, my personal FrontPage web server is gone again. I dread attempting to set this up again and I deeply resent Microsoft for creating this "bug" in FrontPage. (I always feel that Microsoft develops buggy software to force us to pay more money by upgrading.)

    I would like to know if Front Page 2002 would automatically fix this problem for good and if it would allow me to keep my present FP98-created web page intact, WITH ITS PRESENT PIXEL MILL THEME, such that I can update it without problems using FP 2002. Also, I do NOT want to be forced to upgrade to any other software if I get FP 2002. I use Windows 98, second edition and Office 2000. Should I stay with my present FrontPage or upgrade? (Please advise me based upon my needs, not Microsoft's desire for profit . . . Sorry to be so blunt, but I've learned the hard way . . .)

  2. #2
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    If I understand your question correctly - your problem is with the web server - not FrontPage itself. Which web server are you using
    FrontPage Personal Webserver
    or
    Microsoft Personal Webserver?
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    In a previous post you said
    ------------------------------------------
    Thank You. I am using the FrontPage Personal Web Server.
    By the way, if I install FP 2002XP (is XP shorthand for exasperation?) don't I get away from using the personal web server?
    -----------------------------------------
    I can't answer about FP 2002XP, as I haven't used it yet.
    But I can say that the FP Personal Web server is a pain. <img src=/S/sigh.gif border=0 alt=sigh width=15 height=15>
    What OS are you using? What I'd like to figure out is if you can use another server other than FP PWS, like for example the Microsoft PWS. Which, I believe comes with win 98.
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  4. #4
    Rabbitdad
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    FrontPage 98 Personal Web Server (please see edited post). By the way, I asked a person at my ISP about FrontPage 2001 - if they have the extensions and if it's worth the upgrade, and he added that FP 2001 mostly helps Micro$oft in that they now limit the user's use of their own registered product. This complicates re-installs and installs on both desktop and laptop. Am now wondering if I should go out and track down a new copy of 2000 - or change products altogether. (I have already decided to upgrade only my WordPerfect suite, but not Office.)

  5. #5
    Rabbitdad
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    Thank you for your reply, WebGenii. I think I just replied to an earlier post of yours. To answer your present message, I am using Windows 98, 2nd ed. Actually, I have already had bad experience with installing the Windows 98 personal web server. About the second time the web server was lost, a technician at my ISP had me install the Windows personal web server (as opposed to the FP personal Web Server)and I discovered that this server creates a totally different pathway to access FrontPage files; thus I lost my web page until I re-installed the FrontPage Personal Web Server, with its earlier pathway to my FP files. Incidentally, it took guesswork to determine this, along with a developer-level call to Microsoft. They considered this to be a significant-enough problem to not charge for the help, but I am left with my earlier notes to direct me through this circumlocuitous fix (again!) for a problem that should have been resolved in upgrades. That's the bottom line. Does FP 2000 or FP 2001 fix the server problem? Somehow, I have the impression that the personal webserver was dropped in the upgrades for a different approach. Surely, if Micro$oft can figure out how to limit our use of the product through sheer software engineering, it would be able to resolve this problem(?).

  6. #6
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    2 questions:
    1) are you developing your content locally and then publishing it to your ISP?
    2) Yes, the web server "share" created by FP PWS and Microsoft PWS are in different locations, that is why it is useful to know how to manage FP Server Extensions.
    In theory, they are supposed to be robust enough to manage themselves. However, ...
    To be fair, I've logged thousands of hours teaching FP and it isn't that often that I've had to mess with the server extensions.
    Oops, here I am going off on a tangent. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
    Is the fix you were offered last time reinstalling FP server extensions?
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  7. #7
    Rabbitdad
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    Hi Catharine,
    To your first question, yes, I am creating my web site on my local computer then uploading it to my ISP. Sometimes, I edit online. My present domain is quite large.
    The fix, last time, as I understand it, involved reinstalling the personal web server (the little icon comes up in systray). I understand that this pws allows me to use my local computer as though it were the Internet, allowing creation and editing and review of the site as though it were on an Internet browser receiving data from a server on the net.
    What I really need to know is: What will happen if I install FP 2000, or 2001, on my computer? Will the upgrade produce a "fix," or will it automatically install the personal web server for the upgrade . . . or is the pws dropped in the upgrades for a different solution altogether?
    Finally, my understanding is that the FP server extensions are installed out on the ISP server, not the local computer. As far as my end is concerned, with the pws icon missing from the systray, I'm dead in the water with the work I need to do.
    Thanks for your support! <img src=/S/clever.gif border=0 alt=clever width=15 height=15>

  8. #8
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    The PWS allows you to test your site in a more realistic fashion. Much of the abilities of any site depend on the web server being used. However, I would not advise doing any professional hosting with Microsoft's PWS. Which you are not doing - you are very sensibly letting your ISP do it for you.
    Unfortunately, I can't confirm what an FP2000 upgrade will do to the FP personal web server. MS has sold FP2000 in many different configurations (or so it seems to me) and I have always (after a few nasty brushes) avoided the FP PWS.
    I do know that the MS PWS was moved to be part of Win 98 (albeit an optional part you have to hunt for) installation was not automatic.
    The FP server extensions are installed at your local end as well as at the ISP. They allow the webserver (local or ISP) to communicate with Front Page and the scripts that FP writes for your site. Of course, if you are using an MS webserver then the FP server extensions are supposed to be automatically part of the package. However...
    Look for a file called Fpsrvadm.exe This launches the FP server administrator in a DOS <img src=/S/yikes.gif border=0 alt=yikes width=15 height=15> window. You can use this tool to check your installation or switch servers from FP PWS to the Microsoft PWS.
    Finally, you can develop your site without a webserver, it simply limits what you can test realistically before publishing. There are some features which require a webserver with FP server extensions to process the code that FP writes. For example, a hit counter and discussion groups.
    I don't know if any of this directly answers your problem, often some background info helps to smooth the path to an answer tho'

    Cheers
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  9. #9
    Rabbitdad
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    (I just composed a comprehensive reply, then lost it trying to return from the spell check.)
    I have to decide whether to return FP 2002, because this expensive, now largely unsupported program reportedly devotes most of its code modifications to limiting consumer use and I don't know whether it would fix my problems by installing over FP 98 (like Windows 98 fixed problems by installing it over Windows 95, sort of). I could then get FP 2000, which is supported <img src=/S/question.gif border=0 alt=question width=15 height=15>, does not interfere with my private usage, and may also fix the server problem. Or, I could just reinstall the FP 98 PWS in expectations that it will disappear again <img src=/S/hairout.gif border=0 alt=hairout width=31 height=23> to wherever it goes <img src=/S/alien.gif border=0 alt=alien width=14 height=15> <img src=/S/alien.gif border=0 alt=alien width=14 height=15> <img src=/S/question.gif border=0 alt=question width=15 height=15>. Or, if I can identify another software option that would take over my existing site without messing it up, format-wise, that would allow me to eliminate Micro$oft from the situation - thereby reducing my frustrations to Windows and other Office <img src=/S/scream.gif border=0 alt=scream width=15 height=15> programs.
    What would you do, given my limited expertise compared to yours? Thanks for your patience on this!

  10. #10
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    I would install the MS PWS. Run the server extensions adminstrator to "connect" FP to the new web server (the files will probably be in a new area. Open up the root web of the new web server (with FrontPage) and import my content from my old web.
    That should solve the server problem. Now you are asking me to recommend software, including a version of FP I haven't seen yet. Personally, I never recommend to people that they go out on the bleeding edge unless they have a pressing reason to be there. I'd let someone else "break in" FP 2002. Upgrade in 6 months after others have figured out the lumps and bumps.
    So, FP 2000 or "some other solution". In my mind, competing products at the FP level would be Dreamweaver or Net Objects. I haven't used them enough to give a blow by blow comparison. FP's strength is its integration with the rest of the MS office suite. Also 2000 gives you more tools for managing a large website, particularly if you are working with other people.
    What drove you crazy about FP 98 (aside from the web server issue - which you already know my solution for)?
    If you are seriously scoping out other software, try taking a class in the software you are considering. That can be a big help in deciding which software has the functions you desire.
    BTW MS offered "Technical" courses in FP 97 and they have one in FP 2000. Technical courses are more expensive, and assume greater knowledge but they often have a depth of information available nowhere else. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.microsoft.com/trainingandservices/syllabi/syllasearch.asp?CourseNumber=857&CourseTitle=Admin istering+and+Supporting+Microsoft+FrontPage+97&Has Class=yes&PageURL=/TRAININGANDSERVICES/CONTENT/SYLLABI/857BFINAL.TXT>Course No. 857 - Administering and Supporting Microsoft FrontPage 97</A> or <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.microsoft.com/trainingandservices/syllabi/syllasearch.asp?CourseNumber=1592&CourseTitle=Crea ting+and+Managing+Web+Sites+Using+FrontPage+2000&H asClass=yes&PageURL=/TRAININGANDSERVICES/CONTENT/SYLLABI/1592AFINAL.TXT>Course 1592 Creating and Managing Web Solutions Using Microsoft FrontPage 2000
    </A>
    Usually these courses are offered through CTEC's and you can search the MS site for the one closest to you. As I said - more expensive than a Mom & Pop training course, but worth it.
    Conflict of interest declaration: Delivering these kinds of courses is what I do for a living - obviously I believe they are a "Good Thing".
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  11. #11
    3 Star Lounger
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    Re: FrontPage Frustrations

    Re: whether to upgrade to xp or 2000 or not - though nothing to do with web servers. One thing which is radically different post 98 is the way you deal with databases I think 2000 is very much better, but if you are used to the way they are used (that is if you use them) this will be uphill!!

    I have to say that I never got Win 98 PWS to load correctly - I used the FP 98 version and then added 2000 FP extensions and Active Server Pages both downloaded from microsoft!!!!
    Also install PWS 1st and then get going with your upgrage - I have been unable to successfully install PWS (any variety) after 2000. I think 2000 is worth the effort, xp is still in its box until my new pc arrives (don't want to go through the hassle of having to reregister it with MS!!)

    I agree with the comments re attending a training course - you can also pick the trainer's brains ( I also must delcase a vested interest as I am a trainer). Though my usual response is to direct them in this web sites direction!!!!)

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