Attachments and browsers

[IanWilson]

Replying to a post just now on the Word board I wanted to attach a file, and read the message to the effect that attachments require a Mozilla compatible browser. I'm using Opera, and had the option set to identify it as Opera. I changed to setting Opera to identify itself as IE, and then I could attach a file.

Why this limitation? It evidently works when I use Opera as long as it pretends to be something else.

Ian

[Jezza]

Ian

This comes from the days when there was just netscape and IE in the browser world, then they were very much the same. Netscape would introduce a revision and websites would check what browser you used. If you used Netscape you were directed to one page and another if you used IE. You used to get those horrific words "Best viewed in ...blah blah." Therefore IE changed itself to emulate itself as Mozilla(Netscapes name) to get around this problem.

In time Microsoft rattled off and started creating new features out growing Netscape and so people started to search for IE in the user agent. In the battle for supremacy of the browser world, sites started to search for Netscape and/or IE and then we got the horrible situation of "Best viewed in IE 5.X" or "Best viewed in Netscape 4.X" gggrrrr

This got worse as we have two different OS battling it out, Mac and PC

Opera , although being a good light weight browser has come in late and is becoming a known force in the browser world but used by less than 1% of the community. It has the feature in its ua.ini that allows it to emulate itself as a number of browsers to get around this horrific battle.

Looking at the blogs, FF, IE, opera and a few others are getting together to discuss these issues and further standardise browser settings as they differ so much. That is until Google have come in and have a different idea to cyber domination (apparently... <img src=/S/innocent.gif border=0 alt=innocent width=20 height=20>)

There is a host of blogs on the internet with a swathe of opinion on this problem of Opera and its ua.ini preferences(user agent)

[IanWilson]

Thanks - I knew some of that history. But why does prevent posting attachments to the Lounge with Opera unless it presents itself as Mozilla or IE? Can't the Lounge software handle it? Does the Lounge have to engage in what you called 'this horrific battle'?

Ian

[Jezza]

Hi Ian

Sorry if it was sounding like a lecture <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

I will let Admin and Moderators defend the reasons but I have done some research and the like about browser usage.

As we are aware Woodys reached its 5th Birthday this month and was affectively around before Opera 7 and 8 were first up and coming. I know from past posts that it is very difficult and hard work to recode and develop the Lounge from its original spec. especially from volunteers.

Looking at Browser Statistics from W3C that the number of Opera users on the web has always hovered around the 2% mark and were only monitored form 2003 onwards....

Should it not be a case of Opera trying to catch up with the rest instead of websites having to cater for the very small minority... sorry being contravertial there <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

[cbaldrey]

Just attempting an attachment myself using Opera (8), identified as Opera.

Let's see... shall we?

Well.. I'll be darn! There's no option to even attempt an upload. Okay .... where's <img src=/S/claude.gif border=0 alt=claude width=21 height=21> and <img src=/S/wolfman.gif border=0 alt=wolfman width=18 height=24> ??

[Jezza]

<img src=/S/innocent.gif border=0 alt=innocent width=20 height=20> <img src=/S/whisper.gif border=0 alt=whisper width=29 height=17>Don't have problem with Firefox <img src=/S/angel.gif border=0 alt=angel width=15 height=21> <img src=/S/devil.gif border=0 alt=devil width=15 height=15> <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

[jscher2000]

What do you see on this page for Opera? http://jscher2000.home.att.net/webdev/agentinfo.html

For Firefox 1.5 on Windows XP Pro SP2:

navigator object properties

navigator.userAgent = Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8) Gecko/20051111 Firefox/1.5
navigator.appName = Netscape
navigator.appCodeName = Mozilla
navigator.appVersion = 5.0 (Windows; en-US)
navigator.platform = Win32

DOM methods/collections

if(document.getElementById) = true
if(document.layers) = false
if(document.all) = false

For IE6 on Windows XP Pro SP2:

navigator object properties

navigator.userAgent = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)
navigator.appName = Microsoft Internet Explorer
navigator.appCodeName = Mozilla
navigator.appVersion = 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)
navigator.platform = Win32

DOM methods/collections

if(document.getElementById) = true
if(document.layers) = false
if(document.all) = true

[Jezza]

Hi Ian

Further to my last. What version of Opera are you using as there sounds there is good news from the Opera Blogs back in July 2005 about Opera 8.02 final and its ability to spoof. You will also see the number of hits to sites and the relative stats increase

Opera Watch-stop user agent spoofing

[IanWilson]

With the Opera browser set to identify as Opera, I get

Browser Sniffing Tests
navigator object properties

navigator.userAgent = Opera/8.51 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en)
navigator.appName = Opera
navigator.appCodeName = Mozilla
navigator.appVersion = 8.51 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en)
navigator.platform = Win32

DOM methods/collections

if(document.getElementById) = true
if(document.layers) = false
if(document.all) = true



With the Opera browser set to identify as IE, I get

Browser Sniffing Tests
navigator object properties

navigator.userAgent = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en) Opera 8.51
navigator.appName = Microsoft Internet Explorer
navigator.appCodeName = Mozilla
navigator.appVersion = 4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; en)
navigator.platform = Win32

DOM methods/collections

if(document.getElementById) = true
if(document.layers) = false
if(document.all) = true

Ian

[IanWilson]

I'm using Opera 8.51, and I am OK to post attachments as long as I set the preference in Opera for it to identify itself as IE or as Mozilla. It seems a shame in view of the tenor of the story in the link you supplied not to be able to identify as Opera, in the Lounge of all enlightened places.

Ian

[Jezza]

Yep, we shall see when the Administrators get back from their holly days <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

[jscher2000]

Some of the Lounge code probably pre-dates Opera, so please don't take it personally (or personally on behalf of your browser). <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

[IanWilson]

Of course not! Just wondering how it all works.

Ian

[charlotte]

Early in the existence of this version of the Lounge and its short-lived predecessor, the decision was made to primarily support IE, especially in view of the fact that the thrust of the Lounge has always been Microsoft products. Even netscape was not specifically supported in the code of the site. As browsers have come closer in their implementations and their ability to emulate one another, most of them are able to use the Lounge features without too much fallout.

The Lounge code is a heavily modified creation, largely built by <img src=/S/eileen.gif border=0 alt=eileen width=17 height=15>, with only minor and very cautious modifications by administrators since. We mainly try to keep the current code afloat, and none of us has the time, energy or expertise in its scripting language to allow us to heavily modify it or make quick changes to it. It isn't just the interface implementation but also its interaction with the database that would need to be revamped. It was a labor of love for Mum, but it would be a nightmare to rewrite, so don't hold your breath. <img src=/S/sorry.gif border=0 alt=sorry width=15 height=15>

[IanWilson]

No problem - I had just wondered about it really.

Ian