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  1. #1
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    .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic, SQL2000)

    I have been trying to find some site somewhere that tracks how many websites are running ASP Classic and how many run ASP.NET, with, hopefully a chart format to show the rate of adoption/retention.

    any ideas? and, yes, I've done some googling.

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic, SQL2000)

    It's probably almost impossible to determine this since both platforms (ASP Classic and ASP.NET) are essentially free, outside of the cost of the operating systems. Therefore tracking these by sales of the OS alone would be no help - especially since you can run both platforms on the same instance of the OS. Likewise, the output generated by both plaforms is essentially plain HTML, making it difficult or impossible to determine the server platform based on web output alone.

    I imagine there are some statistics on Microsoft's site - probably in the sales or marketing area.

    ASP.NET (1.x and now 2.0) has been the current technology for over 5 years. The benefits over Classic ASP are very clear. Also, the amount of investment being poured into the .NET platform by Microsoft and its customers is overwhelming.

    I think the harder task would be convincing anyone why they should stay with Classic ASP (assuming a rewrite or upgrade is needed).

    But you already know how I feel about this... <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    well, that makes sense, I guess. one thing that comes to mind is using a bot to troll domains with .asp/.aspx/.cmf etc etc in the page file name, but *I'm* not gonna do that.

    as for your .NET monomania <img src=/S/beep.gif border=0 alt=beep width=15 height=15>, I'm sure there are tons of advantages to transitioning, but only if doing so doesn't disrupt normal business and especially if the people pushing it feel compelled to - >ahem< LIE about the reasons for doing so. Unfortunately both of these things are true with the new hires here, which is @#$!% me off...

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    Even trolling for extensions would not be accurate due to the fact that you can override the default extensions and even use .html for ASP.NET files. This is especially common for sites powered by Microsoft Content Management Server - almost all are .html.

    I also agree that normal business operations are priority #1. If given a choice to maintain a legacy Classic ASP application that was business critical or bring it down for an extended rewrite in ASP.NET, I would definitely choose to keep it up and running for the sake of the business. Although, hopefully you can manage to perform a rewrite/update in .NET side-by-side (in a separate development environment) while the legacy site continues to run nicely in its original environment.

    As for your political situation - good luck! Feel free to post any questions here so we can publically correct any misinformation you may be receiving from your colleagues.

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    thanks - I've already used the lounge to document lying weasels <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>. We shall see, but these guys not only refuse to look at existing ASP applications, they seem to get all squiggly-eyed when I mention that I too will be developing in .NET....

    anyway, the Bosses are leaning on them heavily to do their Amazing Miracle Code Re-writes, so all is going roughly forward. anyway, I'm not really in the web app business anymore, except of course to support and extend existing systems (and try to keep them from being sat on by weasels). They've moved me into an investigative division, which should be rather interesting...

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    I may have misunderstood your position and that of the "weasels."

    Are you trying to justify keeping the development in the Classic ASP realm? Or are you trying to justify moving it forward to ASP.NET?

    Just curious...

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    I've got no beef with going to .NET - but we don't have the webservers and stuff needed to host web apps set up, so it's silly to shut everything down just because it's not in their prefered language. I asked them to help me with implementing things like T-SQL to get away from in-line SQL inserts in code, which is needed, but they refused to do that. Actually, they said they would and then went around scaring management about inherent security problems with ASP. It's been REAL aggravating.

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    I can't comment on your server situation and I would hope that any migration will be planned and executed with the goal of minimizing or avoiding down-time for end users.

    One point that I will make (whether or not it matches the thinking of your "weasel" colleagues) is that according to Microsoft's best practice suggestions, business logic does not belong in T-SQL or inline with your presentation code. Business logic should be separated (I typically place it in its own project/assembly) from presentation code and database code. Ideally, the only use for stored procedures should be for CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) - and even then, you can generally get the same performance from prepared SQL statements passed in through a Data Access Layer in your code.

    It sounds complicated, but it's really not (as long as you think in terms of object-oriented coding). Most ASP.NET applications can use 3 types of layers - presentation, business logic, and data access. The presentation is essentially where the ASPX/ASCX and all other user-interface files live. The business logic layer contains objects and logic that represent the rules of your business - including the logic that is traditionally kept in stored procedures. Finally, the data access layer will contain all code needed to access the database - whether it's SQL Server, Oracle, mySQL, or even an XML file.

    When you need to present data in the presentation layer, you create an instance of the necessary object from the business layer (Customers, for instance). Perhaps you'll pass in a CustomerID as an argument so that only the details for that particular customer will be returned. The business logic contains the code needed to return the desired details for that specific customer. The business layer talks to the data access layer, which in turn handles all of the database communication (i.e. creating a connection to the database, running the Read stored proc, returning the data to the business layer, and closing the connection). The needed data is returned to the presentation layer and then displayed on a web page. Also, keep in mind that many applications will have the need for several more layers, depending on the requirements and such.

    That's the gist of it... I'm not sure if this is all related to the current discussion, but it's definitely VERY helpful to understand. Perhaps this is the line of thinking that your colleagues are following.

    Also, ASP.NET is capable of being MUCH more secure than ASP - not to say that either is inherently insecure. ASP.NET has a lot more hardcore security features included out of the box, while ASP takes much more work and development to achieve anything even close...

    Hope this helps!

    Any other Loungers with .NET experience, please jump in!!

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    Mark,

    Great explanation!! <img src=/S/hailpraise.gif border=0 alt=hailpraise width=27 height=22>
    Carpy Diem, it&#39;s .

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    Re: .NET/Classic ASP stats (Win2KPro, ASP Classic,

    Thanks, Peggy. This topic may be more appropriate for a new thread - I'll be happy to provide some code samples, if needed... This is a great discussion for all developers to have - especially those who are making the transition from non-object-oriented environments (VBA/VBScript/VB6) to object-oriented (*.NET).

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