Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Freeze and reboot

    My main work machine has started to freeze (and when it feels for it: reboot).

    @#!% Give me a "clicking" hard drive and I know what is wrong and what to do.
    Give me some leaking capacitors and I at least see the problem and know what to do.
    Give me a virus and I handle it.
    But this ...
    <img src=/S/rantoff.gif border=0 alt=rantoff width=66 height=37>
    Third attempt to post.
    2.5 years ago, I had problem with some memory, so I thought, and bought some new. After testing back and forth there was no evidence of problem later, so I did let it run with both 256 + 256 MB.

    7 months ago, in October, I had escalating problems with freezing; no BSOD, no reboot, just stop or monitor went blank. IIRC it happened anytime; in Windows, at BIOS post screen, in CMOS setup, in Recovery Console (from CD). I went trough every connection inside the machine and took out the oldest memory. I think I also moved the "new" memory from first to second slot. At that second, minute, the freezing stopped. It worked happy until about three-four weeks ago. Only thing during the 7 months was some odd flash (off/on) of the monitor when I scrolled the wheel mouse in Firefox.

    In mid April (had not installed anything for some time, and I always wait a little with MS patch), I installed a new zip-program to try. Three hours later freeze/reboot started and then some later that evening. As I did not like this! And not the zip-program as well, I did uninstall the program. The severity of the problem made me use System Restore, but the restore to a recent RP did not take care of file associations, so I went back again to first situation, with the program uninstalled and went forward with rebuilding file associations.

    Now, I do not blame this particular zip-program. But you all know how the questions go: have you installed something lately? In my case after 7 months working, it took 3 hours after install to break loose.

    Since then I have updated graphic drivers, should have done maybe earlier (from Nov 2004). Some week ago, I did some cleaning inside the machine; removed the graphic card, NIC and memory and reseated everything. Seemed to work for some day or two. Did do testing with MS Win Memtest for some hour, seemed OK, no errors. Then another time it froze, no error in test, just froze.

    Some days ago it rebooted and saluted me with a "CMOS checksum error - Defaults loaded". I went into CMOS Setup and changed frequncy, since default is 100 (and I need 133x11.5). This has happened once before on this machine <post:=315,869>post 315,869</post:> Restarted and did a chkdsk on C: went OK. Run for 2.5 hour, shut down. Frooze on new boot.

    As I said, I do not know where to look; new memory always this tip, but I have not found any errors so far on the memory modules. Graphic card, I have heard that they can produce similar errors as memory modules. CPU and motherboard? If I change MB with MS new rules I cannot run my OEM OS, great another $120-130 for OS. I have other projects this spring/summer and cannot spend so much on the PC.

    Last year I changed, on this machine, CPU cooler and PSU.
    Spec.
    OS: WinXP SP2
    CPU: AMD 1800+
    Mem: 256 MB
    PSU: ~400 W

    Any thoughts appreciated. <img src=/S/thankyou.gif border=0 alt=thankyou width=40 height=15>

  2. #2
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    I don't know, Argus.
    There is a lot to think about in your post but two things ( possibly related ) that come to mind.

    If I read it right, you are overclocking the CPU to some degree? Running a hot CPU will give you freeze ups and other weird indications. I have my P4 1800, bumped up to 2400 and it runs fine but if I go up another notch, it will start to freeze under various conditions and loads. AMDs run hot anyway so with the freq bump maybe it goes over the edge at times.

    The CPU runs much hotter than when it's in default, so I suspect heat is the trouble maker here.

    Do you have any temperature checking available in the BIOS or externally?
    Have you tried to run it at default or at least a LITTLE lower than you want to?
    How many fans do you have in the box?
    Try running the system with the side (s) off for a while?
    BOB
    http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/flags/USA.gif http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/f...sachusetts.gif


    Long ago, there was a time when men cursed and beat on the ground with sticks. It was called witchcraft.
    Today it is called golf!

  3. #3
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    Hi, Bob and thanks for reply!

    No, I am not over clocking. This is AMD Athlon XP 1800+ supposed to run around 1533 MHz. Since my MB multiplier is 11.5 I need "CPUHOST / SDRAM / PCICLOCK" in CMOS to be 133/133/33. Default (fail safe?) is 100/100/33 and thus I will only get 1150 MHz not around 1530 MHz.

    However, I cannot check this now, I think the "CPU ratio selector", i.e. multiplier jumper on the MB is set to "By CPU" (and not to 11.5). The "default" loaded in CMOS Setup I know noting about. There are as always now days also two options if one wants to choose: "fail safe" and "optimized". I think when that checksum error comes it loads "fail safe". Do not know why 100 MHz, instead of 133.

    As for temperatures, since one week ago it has had the sides off (left right top). Some years ago and later I used Mother Board Monitor. However, for a quick check I think the values given in Everst are OK. Hard to compare with in-Windows program and some time later in BIOS, but differ only slightly.

    This warm spring evening:
    Room 23 C
    MB 31 C 88 F
    CPU 40 C 104 F
    HDD 23 C 73 F
    CPU cooler at medium speed.

    Really good values I think. Fans? Ahrm, well after some initial service the building firm removed the case fan some years ago (since I had complained about noice - it was the CPU cooler /PSU). I have one silent quite big CPU fan supposed to be good for AMD Athlon 3000+ and one in the PSU (silent 12 cm). In the warm summertime (it gets quite hot in my home) i often remove some side panel. Top values I have seen after heavy use this spring are around 49 C going down to 47-48 in 5-10 seconds and lower after.

    Of course I could by new MB, CPU, memory, graphic card, name it. I have been pulling my hair. Some year ago I read about PSU's and their influence. Found that my AMD Palomino, that should get 1.75 V, only got 1.69-1.72. Some people at some AMD forum mentioned that there are MB's that sometimes give to low voltage. Therefore, to correct this under voltage one could very slightly adjust this in BIOS. So let us say a change from "Default" that gives 1.69-1.72 to

  4. #4
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    Hi Argus,
    Well, your temps look OK, if they are a constant value.

    I'm sure you have looked at this chart or something similar for the AMD 1800 +.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Athlon XP "Palomino" (Model 6, 180 nm)
    CPU-ID: 6-6-0
    All models support: MMX, SSE, Enhanced 3DNow!
    Model Number Frequency L2-Cache FSB 1 Multiplier Voltage TDP Release Date Part Number
    Athlon XP 1500+ 1333 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 10x 1.75 V 60.0 W October 9, 2001 AX1500DMT3C
    Athlon XP 1600+ 1400 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 10.5x 1.75 V 62.8 W October 9, 2001 AX1600DMT3C
    Athlon XP 1700+ 1467 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 11x 1.75 V 64.0 W October 9, 2001 AX1700DMT3C
    Athlon XP 1800+ 1533 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 11.5x 1.75 V 66.0 W October 9, 2001 AX1800DMT3C
    Athlon XP 1900+ 1600 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 12x 1.75 V 68.0 W November 5, 2001 AX1900DMT3C
    Athlon XP 2000+ 1667 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 12.5x 1.75 V 70.0 W January 7, 2002 AX2000DMT3C
    Athlon XP 2100+ 1733 MHz 256 KiB 266 MT/s 13x 1.75 V 72.0 W March 13, 2002 AX2100DMT3C
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BUT, I think the key to remember is that these are rated values, for that particular model CPU. When a chip manufacturer gets a yield from a certain production run, they SPOT test some of the individual chips. When they fall into a certain set of criterior, they are then ALL pronounced to be a 1500 or a 1800 or a 2100.
    Each individual chip is NOT tested to meet the model specs, so that what settings are good for one chip, would be poor for the one right next to it.
    While the "book" says this CPU should be set for xxx values, it MAY NOT be the one that is right for that particular CPU.

    You may just have a chip that is running on the edge of the book value but not the one that is OK for that one.
    "Try and buy" is still the best way to set up a chip. This in addition to the differences that exist from one MB to the next can mean great results or erratic results..
    BOB
    http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/flags/USA.gif http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/f...sachusetts.gif


    Long ago, there was a time when men cursed and beat on the ground with sticks. It was called witchcraft.
    Today it is called golf!

  5. #5
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    Hi Bob,
    Yes, the temps are OK, but this is with panels off. With case on, I think it is around 44 C for CPU, also OK.

    I have seen similar, yes, for the Palomino family.

    Hmmm, I could run it with 100 MHz on the FSB; at least it is a cheap tweak. But I will get 1150 MHz (75 % of nominal) and slower memory as well. The PC worked well the first year, so at least I could enjoy the stable WinXP for some time.

    I think you can guess why my frustration:
    -If I buy a new memory, say 512 MB, and use that only, I may find that the problem is still there, resulting: three memory modules probably working, problem elsewhere.
    -If I buy new graphic card (old type for my MB) I may find the problem is still there.
    -If I buy a "new" CPU/MB combo; I may find that the problem is still there, i.e. memory or graphic card.

  6. #6
    Uranium Lounger viking33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,308
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    Argus,
    Yes, it does seem that you are caught "between a rock and a hard place", as they say.

    Putting myself in your place, I think I would opt for the new CPU/MB combo, if you could afford it.
    It would give me a great excuse for upgrading, that's for sure!
    BOB
    http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/flags/USA.gif http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/S/f...sachusetts.gif


    Long ago, there was a time when men cursed and beat on the ground with sticks. It was called witchcraft.
    Today it is called golf!

  7. #7
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Freeze and reboot

    Hi Bob,
    Thanks for your comments so far. I normally do not write so long posts since it is hard or boring to read, but they are sometimes neccessary.

    This time I'm here with my "ancient test system" (66 MHz / Win3.11 / IE 3), see how it goes. At least this machine works. If it has been stored 1-2 years, only remove the dust, start up & set the time and it's running. My main PC is like a nervous race horse, this evening I could not even run it for 5 minutes, sigh.

    Even though my posts may be long, I have not mentioned everything. My first post took three attempts. On second I got a BSOD; STOP: 0x00...8E. "Check disk space, drivers, try changing graphic card,try update BIOS, try disable BIOS cache/shadowing" was the message. No specific file or other name on STOP error.

    Today started with freeze after 5 minutes, then ran for 2 hours (my last post) then a new BSOD (never seen before <img src=/S/joy.gif border=0 alt=joy width=23 height=23> <img src=/S/nuts.gif border=0 alt=nuts width=15 height=15> <img src=/S/hmmn.gif border=0 alt=hmmn width=15 height=15> ):
    PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
    STOP: 0x00...4E
    "Check new hardware/software, if problem remain try disabling H-ware/S-ware, dis. BIOS cache/shadowing" etc.

    For the first time, ever, there was also mention about memory dump, and then a dialog after restart, about "serious failure", if I wanted to send the report to MS. Nah forget that, MS are not going to buy me new hardware ... I then changed FSB to "default" that is in this BIOS 100 MHz and with multiplier gives 1150 MHz (not 1533). Worked OK for an hour, had to go, shut down. New start later, as mentioned it frooze.

    Today I checked prices at some local computer shops, but I don't know, first I would like to do some more troubleshooting. Best scenario would be if it was the NIC, they are really cheap. I have not yet tried booting with that one removed. However,from time to time I have it disabled in Device Manager, don't know if that counts as being removed.

    As to this kind of problem one person mentioned that; if it's not memory or graphic it is the MB in 90 % and CPU in 10 % of the cases. Don't know, but there are more different components on the MB that can fail.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •