Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Silver Lounger t8ntlikly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    With all of the news about Vista not being compatible with Norton, I decided this morning to run the "Vista Upgrade Advisor" and see what else I had on my new (5mo.old) laptop that wasn't Vista Compatible or "may not work". And the winners are: HP User Guides, Norton AntiVirus, Norton System Works, ZoneAlarm Pro, Sonic Express Labeler, ATI Desktop Component, Synaptics Pointing Device Driver, and from Microsoft: MS ActiveSync 4.0, Alt-Tab Task Switcher, SyncToy, and Tweak UI. Oh yea and my scanner!
    I am sure that some of these will be taken care of by release time, but I think that I will wait a year or so before jumping on board. If this is a new laptop, and there are this many, I would hate to see what the report on my trusty ole PC is going to say.
    Thanks John
    Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at. (Murphy's War Laws #39)

  2. #2
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    If I were you, I'd wait at least a year after the "final" release before even thinking about VISTA. By that time the real final beta testing will be done by the general public and a few experts and they will have released ant least one service pack and some patches to correct incompatibilities and holes that can be exploited.

    Given Microsoft's track record with respect to releasing unfinished products and then patching them ad infinitum, I can't see paying to be a beta tester for them. Just my <img src=/S/2cents.gif border=0 alt=2cents width=15 height=15>. Opinions will vary.
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  3. #3
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    12,560
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Here is my <img src=/S/2cents.gif border=0 alt=2cents width=15 height=15> <img src=/S/2cents.gif border=0 alt=2cents width=15 height=15> worth.
    I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by the release of Vista. It is better than what is said. Also as for some of these tools NOT working, WELL, it is a complete new OS and ALL of these tools need to be redesigned to work. If these providers would get to doing the redesign and NOT complain about NOT getting the security core code so their program can change the NEW protection method.

    I have tested several NEW versions of some tools and they work. They are completely different than the XP and earlier versions. There are many companies out there that ARE doing their work that is required. Many more are getting there as the code is being locked down.

    AS for drivers, they are starting to take shape as the design of Vista is being locked down. Most OEMs do NOT release any drivers for their older machines until the new hardware is being sold. So for updating a OLD machine, YES, one should wait until the OEMs have released their drivers. Remember that some of them will NEVER release drivers for some hardware. And that MS is NOT in the driver business, they all come from the hardware OEMs.

    Then we can throw the courts in on top of all this. They (the courts) will not give MS any help in letting MS know if the program is violating the courts rulings.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

  4. #4
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    The bottom line seems to be that Microsoft still hasn't learned to work and play well with others.

    "Here's our new OS. We haven't really finished writing it yet and some things will change, but we won't say what. But you go ahead and start redesigning your product to work with ours. You have to because we said so and no you can't have the necessary information to do that because we don't know yet if it will be in the final product. The public release date will be in February 2006....no wait June 2006.... no wait Sept... no December 2006. OK ???"

    As far as the courts go, MS has a legal team and plenty of money to pay them with. Feel sorry for them.... I don't think so !!
    <img src=/S/whisper.gif border=0 alt=whisper width=29 height=17>I simply don't like the heavy handed way the company does it's business and crys when the proper legal restraints are placed on it. There are reasons monopoly in business is illegal in this country. MS demonstrates those reasons daily.

    My other <img src=/S/2cents.gif border=0 alt=2cents width=15 height=15> <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  5. #5
    Silver Lounger t8ntlikly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Dave,
    Given the number of CAPS in your reply, one could surmise that you were a little put off by my comments? I realize that it is up to the manufacture of the software to make their software work with any new OS, and not the responsibility of the OS vendor. I also realize that not every piece of equipment I have will work with a new OS. Hence my decision to wait at least a year before converting.
    All one has to do is look at the overall sales figures in Europe for Windows XP w/o Media Player, to see that some software vendors just have sour grapes. If say Norton was/is in such a huff, then I am sure that there would have been some sort of legal action by Norton by now. Seeing that there hasn't been, then how serious is the problem, and why hasn't Norton done anything about it, and why hasn't TrendMicro either?
    I do not believe for one second that even a company as large or as powerful as Microsoft would have the audacity to force people around the world to only use their security products given the history of some of the worlds largest companies that have tried that. Eventually it will back-fire on them, and in my industry (Wireless Security & Asset Management Solutions) it has.

    IMHO!
    Thanks John
    Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at. (Murphy's War Laws #39)

  6. #6
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,594
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    A monopoly in the USA is not illegal if it was not obtained illegally. It is illegal to leverage a monopoly to retain the monopoly and restrict competition. The debate about whether or not MS has changed their ways could go on forever.

    MS has been getting blasted (and rightfully so) about security for quite a while. Now, with a new OS they've redesigned the kernal to protect it and you've got some other vendors complaining that MS is not allowing them to screw with the kernal. There are several smaller security vendors who say they have no problem with the new OS design and can work with it. MS and these smaller vendors say MS has provided the necessary API/interface information so others can modify their products to play well with Vista. Frankly, if MS has ideed changed the OS to provide an additional level of security I do not care about the whining of Symantec and McAfee. I think there is still plenty of room to provide additional features and functions in the security area.

    The idea of updating/redesigning a companion product because the OS (or some application product) changes is nothing new. Nor is an evolving set of interface specifications. I think this is being way overblown by a couple of firms who are scared to death that their own 'fatted cows' are about to be gored.

    Joe
    Joe

  7. #7
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Joe,

    You are correct about the laws on monopoly and I should have been more clear. What MS was doing in the past was using unquestionably illegal, monopolistic practices in it's business dealings. Now they use their lawyers to define the legal envelope they can stretch. <img src=/S/disappointed.gif border=0 alt=disappointed width=15 height=15> And yes, this argument can, and probably will, go on forever.

    The lack of security in XP (that was touted as the most secure OS yet when it came out) and the irresponsible marketing by MS and the way they issued flawed patches and mishandled the entire situation until the release of SP2, when they finally got the patch thing down, was apalling. And now they want us to trust that they have this one right ??? <img src=/S/hmmn.gif border=0 alt=hmmn width=15 height=15> I agree that if they have implemented new security, and changed the kernal to do so, that the other vendors should either rewrite their software to accomodate the change or tell the public that their software will not work with Vista and stop complaining. But MS has a responsibility to it's customers, and the public in general, to provide these other companies with the necessary codes and information to allow them to achieve 100% compatibility in a reasonable time, and before the release of Vista. They should not, howerer, be expected to allow the others to "screw with the code" in order to make their product work with it. Their job is to figure out how to make it work with the code as is. Period.

    My arguement was not so much about the companies and their infighting. I could care less about them and thier over-blown opinions of themselves and their products. My point was more my objection as a consumer to having these half-baked products foisted on us as finished and compatable and secure. We in turn then place all our important personal & business data on thes computers and make both our personal and business lives completely dependent on the programs. Then when there are problems the people behind them say in effect, "Opps, sorry, but you should really have backed up your data.". It would be more correct to expect them to stand behind their product and not hold us, the customer who always used to be right and the reason they were in business in the first place, accountable for their faulted products.
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  8. #8
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,594
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    I believe that XP was touted as the best, most secure MICROSOFT OS ever (an important choice of words as opposed to the most secure OS ever). And if you look at it objectively you can't really argue with that statement. Yes, MS has bungled some patches and made some decisions that in retrospect were poor at best. Industry people who have observed the quality and security of the various MS OSes since the now famous security memo by BG admit that with XP SP2, XP64, Windows 2003 SP-1, Windows 2003 R2, Vista,and Longhorn beta there have been huge strides. Even MS says there is still a long way to go and that this process will be neverending.

    As far as MS providing third party vendors with appropriate API documentation, there was yet another article today saying Kaspersky Labs thinks that what MS has provided so far will be adequate to enable them to have a product suite that will work just fine with Vista when Vista is released. As I said before, I think Symantec and McAfee are scared to death that they won't be able to compete with MS.

    I've been developing software for a lot longer than I care to admit (>35 years). If you really expect to have a product that is not released until it is 'fully baked' (and you have to tell me what that means) you will never see a product released. I do not believe that MS or any software vendor has ever represented a product as being defect free. A business is derelict in its duty if it does not have a business continuity/contingency plan in place - regardless of the size of the business. If you use a computer and do not backup critical information shame on you not shame on MS or anyone else. Do you want MS to build automatic backup into the OS and start yet another round of investigations and suits?

    If you or any other individual or any business is that dissatisfied with MS vote with your wallet. Enough clients doing that always get a company's attention.

    Joe
    Joe

  9. #9
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    <center>
    <hr>this argument can, and probably will, go on forever.<hr>
    </center> But not between you and I. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    "Half baked" is simply something that is not ready for consumption. The play on words not withstanding, XP wasn't ready when it was released. My rational for that statement is that if it were ready, MS wouldn't have struggled so much to develop patches that worked, and caused serious doubts among users about wether the cure was worse than the disease. Our own Duchess is still struggling with this issue. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> And while I know that no product will be free of gliches when it first comes out, I wonder why Apple doesn't have the same issues with their OS's that Microsoft seems to. I'm not a tech educated or trained person, just a self taught user (many thanks to all those here who have contributed to my education, such as it is). Many people I know consider me a wizard with computers. I know that I am not and come up woefully short when it comes to technology wisdom and information. Most folks don't understand their computers any more than they understand their VCR or DVD player, and think that doing a backup in some way involves their car. <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15> Shame on them ???? Shame on the computer industry for telling the general population to put all their personal data on a computer and then making something so vast and potentially dangerous as the internet available to all without first teaching them to secure their data and giving them a simple, safe and reliable way to back that data up. More people than you think, believe that their data will be reinstalled when they reinstall the OS and programs. As you said, you've been doing this for 35 years as a developer/programmer. I've been a user for 13 years and an involved user for the last 10 years. Unless you pay attention to the computer world regularly, it changes much too fast for the average person to keep up with and understand. We all have to realize this from the questions that are posted here in the Lounge. What is common knowledge to us is not really very common.

    As for voting with my wallet.... if I thought I would be doing any more than cutting off my nose to spite my face, I might consider it. My next computer is very likely to be a Mac that will also boot to Windows so I don't cut myself off from the confusion that is the rest of the PC world.

    And no, I've never used a Mac. But I can learn. <img src=/S/yep.gif border=0 alt=yep width=15 height=15>
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  10. #10
    Bronze Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,424
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Hi Doc,
    I am not entering into your discussion about what is right or wrong about MS, but believe me when I say that Mac is awesome! I have the iMac and I am very happy with it so far. But I also have my XP PC (completely updated) and I wouldn't be without it either! They both have their place in the technology world along with every other O/S that is developed and maintained! Nothing is ever going to be perfect but gee compared to what we used to have, it sure is great to be where we are today. And I sure am looking forward to "tomorrow"! <img src=/S/yep.gif border=0 alt=yep width=15 height=15>


    "Peace begins with a smile. "-- Mother Teresa

  11. #11
    Silver Lounger t8ntlikly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Geeze All I didn't mean to open a can of wors here, it was just my observasion...LOL!
    Thanks John
    Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at. (Murphy's War Laws #39)

  12. #12
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Glad you saw it for what it was Skitter. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> An intellectual discussion between an intellectual and myself. I would never argue with someone of Joe's experience. But I enjoy a bit of point-counterpoint now and again. <img src=/S/argue.gif border=0 alt=argue width=50 height=25> <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    I've heard so many good things about the stability and user friendly nature of the Mac OS over the years. The new commercials and the new dual boot capabilities have got me thinking about it more seriously. <img src=/S/pcvmac.gif border=0 alt=pcvmac width=137 height=30> <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  13. #13
    Bronze Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,424
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Hi Doc,

    I don't want to turn this thread to far from the original topic but I must say that the dual boot option was very tempting and then I realized I could network the two and have both worlds that way! The other reason I didn't try dual booting is because I didn't want to fill up my IMac with PC stuff since I am fortunate enough to have a working PC with XP on it.

    I am learning how to make digital movies on the iMac - mostly of our 1st grandson - and I have to say I am having lots of fun learning this new system. If you make the purchase of a Mac, I think you will find it challenging but very interesting! And underneath it all is a Unix system that I have yet to play with.......... <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    The debate that you and Joe have been having has been very interesting and I enjoy enlightening discussions of this sort! <img src=/S/thankyou.gif border=0 alt=thankyou width=40 height=15> both! And I am glad that t8ntlikly aka John got it started! <img src=/S/thumbup.gif border=0 alt=thumbup width=15 height=15>


    "Peace begins with a smile. "-- Mother Teresa

  14. #14
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    Hey Skitter !!

    Thanks for the encouragement. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> As I already have a good, stable, updated and well backed up <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> Windows XP system that, despite it's foibles, I enjoy very much I will give serious consideration to buying a Mac and keeping the two systems seperate. Your point about not gunking up a new Mac with old PC stuff is a good one <img src=/S/thumbup.gif border=0 alt=thumbup width=15 height=15> and I thank you. <img src=/S/thankyou.gif border=0 alt=thankyou width=40 height=15>

    As for hijacking this thread <img src=/S/pirate.gif border=0 alt=pirate width=22 height=18>... I think the "discussion" had played itself out. <img src=/S/laugh.gif border=0 alt=laugh width=15 height=15>
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  15. #15
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    12,560
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor

    I believe that there may be a newer version of the Vista Upgrade Advisor out before long.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •