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  1. #1
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    Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    On different PCs, I've noticed that the empty paragraph in the header sometimes is visible and sometimes is not, with Show All on. When it IS visible, labels tend to have the last row push on to a new page.

    The header is definitely empty, and running VBA code to set the header Range.Text = "" does not help. The proper result occurs only when going to header view and hitting the Delete key several times, either manually or with VBA code.

    This apparently has something to do with the normal template. I have a normal template that I started using a month or so ago. I still have a copy of that template. The early copy does NOT have the visible para mark in the header. The one I have been using daily DOES have. Our users seem to have a mix of "with" and "without."

    What could be the cause of this transition in the normal template? If I open normal.dot and hit Delete a few times in the header and save it, things return to normal. Seeing the slightly greyed paragraph mark in the header doesn't bother me; I know there is an empty para mark in an empty header. But the problem with labels is definitely an issue.

    Richard Barrett

  2. #2
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    If a header or footer is really empty, that is, it only contains the default paragraph mark that is always present and that cannot be deleted, the header or footer will be blank when the insertion point is in the body of the document, even if Show All is on.
    If you enter anything in the header or footer, even if it is only a space, tab or paragraph mark, the text in the header or footer, including the default paragraph mark, will be shown when you're in the body of the document if Show All is on.
    The header or footer of a document or template doesn't tend to change spontaneously, so if the paragraph mark is visible, I can only assume that the user entered something inadvertently.

    I always turn on "Prompt to save Normal.dot" in the Save tab of Tools | Options... That way, I get alerted if Word wants to save Normal.dot. If I'm convinced that I haven't changed anything I want to keep, or if I've been experimenting, I reply No, so that Normal.dot will not be changed.

  3. #3
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    I understand the theory of a "blank" header when there is nothing but the default empty paragraph. But that is not what I'm seeing. There is in fact nothing in the header but that blank paragraph mark. If I write code to delete the header range, I can still see it. If I write code to delete each individual paragraph in the header range (though I know there is only one), I can still see it. Only by actually hitting the Delete key several times does it actually "disappear" when the cursor is in the main document.

    Do you think that this could be a display issue? I agree that the template is not going to change spontaneously, but the empty paragraph is there whether we see it or not. I'm guessing that Word determines whether to show the header/footer layer based on whether there is something other than the default paragraph. Could it be that it's that determination that is incorrect? Might this be a sign of corruption in normal?

    In a non-affected copy of Word, I experience exactly what you've explained, which is just what I expect. But I'm seeing this "phantom" paragraph mark consistently among hundreds of users. Of course they all started with the same copy of normal.dot. In my remote (Citrix) environment, I always see the paragraph mark in the blank header, but it does not affect a label sheet. In fact, when I add a label sheet as a new document, I do not see the header paragraph. On my local PC, I see the empty header paragraph, and a new label document retains it... and the bottom row of the table is pushed to a 2nd page. If I hit Delete in the header a few times, everything is OK.

    Do you think that adding AutoText, firm styles and numbering to normal.dot could affect the display? Do you agree that this is a display issue?

    Regards,
    Richard

  4. #4
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    I don't have the slightest idea. Could you attach a small sample document in which the header is blank while it still displays the paragraph mark?

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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    Sure. Here's one.

    Thanks,
    Richard
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  6. #6
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    It does seem to be a display issue. When I open your document, I do see the paragraph mark in the header (and footer)
    If I then select View | Header and Footer, and close the header immediately, without changing anything (no deleting or whatever), the paragraph mark disappears.
    In this document. the amount of space available on the page remains the same, whether the paragraph mark in the header/footer is visible or not.
    See screenshots below.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: png x.PNG (2.9 KB, 0 views)

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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    Despite the equal amount of available space on the page, labels (I tested with Avery 5164) push the last row to the next page. Again, going into the header and Closing usually sets things right. On some occasions, I've had to do more fussing, but I haven't tracked what those circumstances are. I have some old documents from users where there is text in the footer, yet the phantom para remains. Given that there is text in the footer, they must have gone into header/footer view.

    Thanks,
    Richard

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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    I don't really understand what is going on here, and I don't know if it's really worth spending a lot of time on...

  9. #9
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    Most of our users have the phantom paragraph in a new document based on the normal template. Not everyone sees the phantom paragraph after creating a label sheet in a new document. That's similar to the difference you and I experience. It could be the printer driver. We have 800 users in 8 offices who are having varying degress of trouble with this. As we've seen, it's easy enough to resolve. Some users don't want to be bothered with anything; others can't remember what to do, even if they did it yesterday! I think I'll have to write code to open everyone's normal (once), jiggle the header, save and close normal.

    Regards,
    Richard

  10. #10
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    I have discovered what is causing this paragraph to appear. I have code that runs as each document opens to ensure that no legacy DocID codes remain in the document footer(s). We have recently changed the method by which DocID codes are added to documents, and we want to rid documents of any old codes. The codes are Word fields which reference a custom doc property called "DocID".

    The code cycles through each footer of each section. Within each footer, the code looks at each paragraph to see if this field exists. If it's found, the field AND the paragraph are deleted. There may be several of these fields in any given footer. I check all footer types (first page, primary and even page), because the document might originally have had a different first page footer which was subsequently turned off. If turned back on, the code would resurface.

    Running this code (on any open document, in fact) causes the para in the header to appear. I have found a couple documents where the position of the first line of the document is disturbed as a result. The status bar shows vertical position 1.6", and it should be 1." Going into Print Preview and Closing, or going into Header view and Closing sets things right. I've added a few lines of code at the bottom of the Sub to seek header view, but that doesn't help. In other situations, I added DELETE, but since I don't know what's in this header, DELETE is not an option.

    Would you have a look at the code (attached as a TXT file) and see if you see anything that might cause this? It appears to be simply a display problem, but it is affecting some documents.

    Thanks very much.
    Richard
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  11. #11
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    The culprit is the line that sets the variable rng to the Range of the footer. Apparently, referring to the range calls it into existence.

    You can shorten the code a bit by looping through the footers, and checking whether they exist, but since the primary footer always exists, the effect will remain the same.

    The problem with shifting text will occur if the "From edge" distance for the header or footer (in the Layout tab of File | Page Setup) is set to a larger value than the top or bottom margin (in the Margins tab). In its pristine condition, the header or footer isn't displayed, so the large "From edge" value doesn't have any effect, but as soon as the header and footer are "created" by the code, the "From edge" distance will push the body text away from the edge of the paper. To get around this, make the "From edge" value smaller than the corresponding margin minus the line height of the header/footer.

    Shortened code attached.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  12. #12
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    Thank you.

    Did you mean to indicate that your "shortedned" code would not cause the paragraph mark to be visible? When I run the code you sent, even on a blank document, the header Para becomes visible.

    The shifting text, in the case you mention, isn't really a problem, because I do deal with the separately. Some of the documents which have the old DocID code were originally WordPerfect documents which were simply opened in Word and re-saved. Many others are Word 6 documents with very poor formatting standards.

    I've stepped though the code you sent on a blank document. I've done this with Different First Page Header/Footer checked as well as unchecked. There was nothing in the footer(s) of the document. The ftr iterated once with DifferentFirstPage unchecked, and twice when checked. This is what I expect. The header para became visible in both cases. Is this what you saw?

    Thanks,
    Richard

  13. #13
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    No, if you read my reply carefully, you'll see that I mentioned that it wouldn't make a difference.

  14. #14
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    I just wanted to be certain. Of course the documents that are the biggest problem are label sheets... where, by default, the bottom margin is 0 and the footer distance is .5.

    It was with labels that I first noticed this issue. I can flag new documents and documents that I've "processed" so that the DocID check doesn't occur a second time. That should take care of this.

    Thanks again,
    Richard

  15. #15
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    Re: Header Para Mark (Word XP)

    But aren't label documents unlikely to have anything in the header/footer?

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